anyone else think that TOEE's engine could have been the next IE?

blatantninja said:

I never got far in it. While I liked the look of it, the engine just didn't seem to flow well. I understand for some people it was exactly what they were looking for, but it just seemed exceedingly strange to me for the game to basically be real time until combat started then switch to complete turn based. I couldn't get used to it.

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So you never played Fallout 1 nor 2. I feel this system a good trade because exploration doesn't really require turn based and fights designed for turn based have ton more potential for strategy and tactics.

Myself I enjoyed the companions and the story plus the few alternate choices. Ok I don't remember their names but I also never read many times mention of any of them unlike some of other RPG. But for sure the great points was ton of good fighting and exploration that was often good. The game get killed for me prematurely because of few persistent bugs corrupting savegame that the community never succeed patch despite multiple patches done. Because of that I played it only two times and second time didn't reach the end. But I also replayed a part of my first play to try an alternate choices.

The problem of companions is that after BG2 players feel them poor because a density like in BG2 requires a huge time of design. In a way Bioware killed companions in RPG.

EDIT: But if a system like in Eschalon Book could be adapted to party, this could be an even better base than RT exploration and TB fights. No Avernum series doesn't implement at all this system, well at least that's my feeling.

Gokyabgu said:

Then it's good that they couldn't make it. VtM: Bloodlines is one of my all time favourite RPGs and it was made by the source engine too, but Arcanum presents different taste (quite a large world to explore, turn-based combat system) to the player than Bloodlines (much more focus to the story, much more linear, real time combat system).

Now I consider Age of Decadence as the next Arcanum-style game.

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Considering steampunk is "in" these days I think an Arcanum sequel might do pretty well nowadays.

There have been sequels of games by defunct developers/publishers before (Fallout, Thief, Deus Ex).. I think Arcanum is deserving of one too.

Captain Smollett said:

There have been sequels of games by defunct developers/publishers before (Fallout, Thief, Deus Ex).. I think Arcanum is deserving of one too.

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I would love to see a sequel to a game like Arcanum, but I doubt it would be anything like the original, and it certainly wouldn't be an isometric, turn-based crpg.

Dasale said:

So you never played Fallout 1 nor 2. I feel this system a good trade because exploration doesn't really require turn based and fights designed for turn based have ton more potential for strategy and tactics.

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I bought them from GOG last year and haven't had much time to play them yet. I did play a little bit of the first one when I bought it, and I found the combat confusing.

The problem of companions is that after BG2 players feel them poor because a density like in BG2 requires a huge time of design. In a way Bioware killed companions in RPG.

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Yeah, BG2 really spoiled us. I think the interaction with the companions is what draws me over and over to that game. Sort of like visiting with old friends.

Captain Smollett said:

Considering steampunk is "in" these days I think an Arcanum sequel might do pretty well nowadays.

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I'm really enjoying the steampunk setting of Arcanum. Only other game in that setting I've played was Ultima, WoA Martian Dreams. I've always thought the concept was cool, but I never found any media I liked with it.

Any recommendations on other games?

blatantninja said:

Yeah, BG2 really spoiled us. I think the interaction with the companions is what draws me over and over to that game. Sort of like visiting with old friends.

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I agree. They set a standard so high that lmost no-one can really reach it.

And then games get bad remarks because games can't comply to that high standard, I fear.

blatantninja said:

I bought them from GOG last year and haven't had much time to play them yet. I did play a little bit of the first one when I bought it, and I found the combat confusing.

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Ouch Fallout 1 with confusing combats? I don't understand it, it's turn based so at worse you can take more time if you want. Well RPG are confusing, complex classes and you don't know very well the result of your class choices, plenty stories, many characters, and combats. But well it's not a flaw.

blatantninja said:

Yeah, BG2 really spoiled us. I think the interaction with the companions is what draws me over and over to that game. Sort of like visiting with old friends.

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For me it's more the fights that will drag me back to a RPG, the point is I dislike many companions in BG2 that I enjoyed in BG1. Also if there was well detailled and build in BG2, not as well detailed in BG2, I regret a lot the companion design orientation of BG1. But yes BG2 but I think DAO too build in different way impossible challenges for companions.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

I agree. They set a standard so high that lmost no-one can really reach it.

And then games get bad remarks because games can't comply to that high standard, I fear.

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Well for modern games I mean since 5/6 years perhaps more, I also suspect the high standard discourage design team or financial team.

But I think it's also a lot because no companions remove many problems:

• It allow a closer view, highlighting the detailed 3D and people think it improves immersion feeling.
• Fights are more easy to design with just one character to control when for a party it's complicate and turn based fights is like banished so can't be the solution to control a party.
• It simplifies the complicated points of RPG, not 6 classes to manage, not 6 inventories to manage.
• Area and places and clear objective points for achieving a gigantic size many player want at any price, when companions depth is a more subjective value for the size of the game. So it's an easier solution to trade companions for more area so more clear bigger size of the game.

Arcanum using the TOEE engine... I think I just had an orgasm at the thought.

But they could use that engine today and I'd still be happy with it. It's been a while since I played TOEE (sadly, never finished it so maybe I should look for those CDs) but I remember it looked excellent, with lots of detail and a very functional U.I.

Relayer said:

Arcanum using the TOEE engine… I think I just had an orgasm at the thought.

But they could use that engine today and I'd still be happy with it. It's been a while since I played TOEE (sadly, never finished it so maybe I should look for those CDs) but I remember it looked excellent, with lots of detail and a very functional U.I.

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Yup, it's functional and I could definately see a game today being made with the engine. I can't say the same about the Infinity Engine, given the recent nostalgic thread about it here (We miss the Infinity Engine I think it is called).

Captain Smollett said:

Yup, it's functional and I could definately see a game today being made with the engine. I can't say the same about the Infinity Engine, given the recent nostalgic thread about it here (We miss the Infinity Engine I think it is called).

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Give the Infinity Engine a facelift, and I'd love to see something made with it today.

Dasale said:

Ouch Fallout 1 with confusing combats? I don't understand it, it's turn based so at worse you can take more time if you want. Well RPG are confusing, complex classes and you don't know very well the result of your class choices, plenty stories, many characters, and combats. But well it's not a flaw.

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Not saying its a flaw, I just found it confusing to go from a real time environment to turn based. Also, there seemed to be some other things in play with how many turns you got vs your enemy, etc. that I didn't have a grasp for.

JDR13 said:

Give the Infinity Engine a facelift, and I'd love to see something made with it today.

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They wouldn't even need to give it a facelift for me! Just put together new areas, a new story and the same great writing and I'd pay $50 for that in a heartbeat!

I'm playing TOEE right now with the circle of eight modpack and WOW, what a nice game it is! One thing i've been thinking about is that the supposedly small village of hommlet feels like it's packed with more people and life then most "big" cities of newer games. The small village of hommlet feels larger and more interesting then the metropols of ME2 for instance. heh.