JA: Back in Action - Demo Released!

Gorath said:

They didn't screw up a fine game. JA 2 is just as good as it ever was.

Did you already try it, or what makes you think it's so bad?

Of course they changed the formula. Why was there never again a good JA2 clone? Because no publisher wanted to commit the money. Which hints that JA2 didn't sell. Developers and publishers are in the business to make money.

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I don't care what sells. I love TB games. I don't like RT, RTwP, simultaneous action games. You don't "improve" a TB combat game by removing TB.

I played the demo through a couple of times once you get the plan and go figured out it works as good as turn based action. If you play as real time action the enemy hands you your head on a platter. To interest the RPG side you gain XP from kills and are able to level your merc by putting points exactly where you want them XP seemed to be shared with the active shooters not just the killing shot but the hang back medical support not getting as many XP.
I have been playing JA 2 for the last week while waiting for this demo so the game experience is fresh in my mind and not clouded by foggy multi year memories and in my opinion the combat is as fun in this form as in the old one. I don't know how the strategic map and militia are handled but if it is little changed the the overall game should be fun.
I have played all the TB combat games like Fallout Tactics, JA 1 & 2, UFO, Silent storm & the UFO afterfall series and while this may not be TB it is still a fun tactical combat game.
What kind of surprises me is the venom that is spewed by so many who may not have tried it, or did so with extreme prejudice, it may not be your cup of tea but hey sometimes innovation can be a good thing.

The point is I have played a lot of RTwP games, such as the IE games, NWN, After* games, and BE5 and I find them to be very inferior to TB games such as JA2, ToEE, KotC, Silent Storm, and XCOM. So what you see as "innovation" I see as a major step in the wrong direction. I also see it as another nail in the coffin of a dying genre, which just happens to be my favorite form of gaming.

I wasn't going to, but the comments about how it will hand you your butt if you play it in real-time sounds interesting. I do not like the fact that I can see everyone, but if it's challenging then what the hell. I'll give it a shot later on when I have some more time.

Thanks for the comments guys.

BTW, I was one of those guys who was outraged when I heard about this game, but Gorath's word goes a long way with me and he seems to like it so it couldn't hurt to try the silly thing. If it sucks then it'll be no different than wasting my time in the weird part of youtube

quasimodo said:

I don't care what sells. I love TB games. I don't like RT, RTwP, simultaneous action games. You don't "improve" a TB combat game by removing TB.

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Hey that's fine. But if you don't care, why do you post?

TB was never on the table for JA:BiA. It was planned as RTwP from the very beginning. So frankly, you're not part of the target audience.

Here's a video showing how not to play. This guy is doing nearly everything wrong.

It handed my head on a platter a couple of times. I think I could learn to accept the P&G piece as it worked fairly well for me. I think it will speed up battle without removing too much tactics and behave a lot like an improved Infinity Engine game in practice.

I dont like the lack of FOW but its not a showstopper yet. I have hopes it can be modded back in as I heard it was in the code but taken out. Hopefully hidden setting or something.

The controls in general are wonky especially inventory but I just might not have a knack for their setup yet kinda like Gothic 1 in that regard. It could really use edge scrolling though. Dont always want to have to rely on keyboard for scrolling.

Still think JA2 1.13 will give it stiff competition but might breath some additional life back into the 1.13 modding scene which has slowed down somewhat. I'll play through demo some more before making a buying decision.

Gorath said:

Hey that's fine. But if you don't care, why do you post?

TB was never on the table for JA:BiA. It was planned as RTwP from the very beginning. So frankly, you're not part of the target audience.

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I'm guessing he posted in order to share his opinion. Why else does anyone post anything on the internet?

Gorath said:

Hey that's fine. But if you don't care, why do you post?

TB was never on the table for JA:BiA. It was planned as RTwP from the very beginning. So frankly, you're not part of the target audience.

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Yeah I know, but I'm a JA2 fanboy. I was one of the first people to register on the developer's website back before we found out it was going to be RTwP. So I post because I care about JA2 and I hate what is happening to it and the genre.

JA is not the first TB franchise to sacrificed on the altar of RT gaming, but it surely is the one that hurts the most.

Tried it again and found the Dragunov at that made it much much easier. But controls still suck really really hard. I must have ability to remap the middle-mouse button to rotate (and not while pressing Alt) and window edge to move the screen or its a non-starter. Its just too painful to move around get good angles. Further it seems like just changing camera angles improves the merc's ability to shoot! If that is the case its just plain broken.

I so want this to succeed and not suck that it hurts. Oh well.

I also tried it again and finished the map without problems, working my way from SW. AI helped a lot: two mercs positioned by the window overlooking the swamp camp had lots of fun killing about six guards running to the same spot outside the building one after the other to check the bodies of their comrades neutralized shortly before. During most of that killing spree, two guards sitting behind cover in the adjacent space of the same building sat tight, then ran out one after the other (panic?), to be shot by the flank guard.

I still find the interface raw, mainly what Figment said above. Exchanging items is a pain, why not do it in the inventory interface if the mercs are close enough? Hope the final game includes an option to control the frequency of the mercs' comments, some are very repetitive, and improve pathfinding (especially, moving prone).

Re: the gameplay, pausing a lot and micromanaging didn't work for me - it's a poor substitution for TB combat. Guard mode with less pausing helped make it more fun, but playing like that I felt the game could use many more conditional and modal options, borrowing from DA:O. E.g. if I give a sniper rifle to a sharp shooter I want a switch for him to only aim at the head; or if a doc has a med kit, an option to treat the wounded if the combat is resolved, etc.