Elminage Gothic - A Unique Gem

Hey folks!

In this quick video I take a look at some unique characteristics of Elminage Gothic, and try to explain what makes the game great! Take a peek and see what you think!

Hey everyone! In this quick video I talk about some of the great and often overlooked features of Elminage Gothic that make it an outstanding game. Everything from the brutal difficulty level to the maze-like dungeons is discussed in this video! Note - This is not ALL of the great features of the game, just a few very unique ones that make the game stand out as a dungeon-crawling RPG!

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Enjoy!

More information.

The irony is that all of your strengths can also be considered weaknesses.

When Wizardry came out in 1981 it was *unique* back then.

gozioso said:

The irony is that all of your strengths can also be considered weaknesses.

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There are other, more basic strengths that I didn't mention. The atmosphere of the game, the art design and other things are strengths as well. The things I mentioned were more of what set it apart from other games and made it feel unique to me.

muhabor said:

When Wizardry came out in 1981 it was *unique* back then.

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Elminage Gothic may be based closely on the original Wizardry games, but you're not going to find much like it on the PC gaming platform in terms of modern games that are similar. Right now Elminage Gothic is a unique dungeon-crawl with a mix of beautiful, surreal artwork and brutal difficulty.

My point still stands. Did you ever play Wizardry:Tales of the Forsaken Land (released in 2001) for the PS2? This game seems remarkably similar. Wizardry 8 was released at the same time and did everything far, far better. If you expect to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you need to learn about objectivity.

gozioso said:

My point still stands. Did you ever play Wizardry:Tales of the Forsaken Land (released in 2001) for the PS2? This game seems remarkably similar. Wizardry 8 was released at the same time and did everything far, far better. If you expect to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you need to learn about objectivity.

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Your point still stands? What exactly would that be? That some people won't like the things I like and consider them weaknesses instead of strengths? Oh well. Everyone has their own unique tastes, and in this video I am simply sharing some of mine.

Everything is subjective. I don't search for some high ground to claim objectivity. All my tastes are subjective and I hope those that follow me or watch my videos understand that and take the reviews simply for what they are - subjective fun, and "Fluent's Thoughts".

gozioso said:

My point still stands. Did you ever play Wizardry:Tales of the Forsaken Land (released in 2001) for the PS2? This game seems remarkably similar. Wizardry 8 was released at the same time and did everything far, far better. If you expect to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you need to learn about objectivity.

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So in your world…stop me if I'm wrong….objectivity means agree with your view points or you won't be taken seriously.

Might want to work on people skills.

gozioso said:

If you expect to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you need to learn about objectivity.

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I don't think this video is a review. It's more of an opinion piece of the strengths of Elminage as seen by Fluent.

Anyhow, keep up the good work Fluent. I haven't had time to watch your recent Elminage videos, but I fully intend to at some point. I really enjoyed the first few videos you put out.

Fluents reviews are funny and from the heart, hes a serious gamer first and a reviewer second. I always watch his videoes, he has a sexy nerdy voice.

rune_74 said:

So in your world…stop me if I'm wrong….objectivity means agree with your view points or you won't be taken seriously.

Might want to work on people skills.

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I just laugh when I hear the term objectivity anymore. It really doesn't make any sense to me.

Nephologist said:

I don't think this video is a review. It's more of an opinion piece of the strengths of Elminage as seen by Fluent.

Anyhow, keep up the good work Fluent. I haven't had time to watch your recent Elminage videos, but I fully intend to at some point. I really enjoyed the first few videos you put out.

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Thanks! If you watch just one recent video, make it Episode 29. The game destroys me in that episode and teaches me several valuable lessons. Let's just say, the dungeon I'm exploring in the recent episodes was probably designed by Satan himself to torture players who made it that far.

Dragonx said:

Fluents reviews are funny and from the heart, hes a serious gamer first and a reviewer second. I always watch his videoes, he has a sexy nerdy voice.

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Haha! Thank you!

This isn't really a review, but rather a few "obscure" points I wanted to make about the game that could be easily overlooked. I can follow up with more details in future videos, perhaps.

I bought this during Summer Sale, fired it up... didn't make it out of char gen. I hadn't much of an idea what I was doing and the controls were clunky.
I'll give it another shot when I find the time or am very bored...

rune_74 said:

So in your world…stop me if I'm wrong….objectivity means agree with your view points or you won't be taken seriously.

Might want to work on people skills.

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Might want to work on reading comprehension. Objectivity means looking at a game from all perspectives. Here is an example:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24832

I obviously really liked that game, but I had no problem criticizing every possible facet that I felt was lacking and would annoy other players. Even though I, personally, loved the game, I acknowledged all of the myriad flaws (and there were quite a few). If those flaws are deal breakers for some, then I won't blame them.

In this case, calling Elminage Gothic a "Unique Gem" is preposterous. Thief and System Shock, for example, were genre-defining, unique gems. This game…not so much. I already mentioned Tales of the Forsaken Land for PS2. The two are very similar and flawed. The mechanics were tedious in 2001 and nothing has changed. He is entitled to his opinion, though.

gozioso said:

My point still stands. Did you ever play Wizardry:Tales of the Forsaken Land (released in 2001) for the PS2? This game seems remarkably similar. Wizardry 8 was released at the same time and did everything far, far better. If you expect to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you need to learn about objectivity.

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In fairness, Elminage was obviously made on a much smaller budget than the games you're comparing it to.

And yeah.. Wiz 8 was better by far, but it's almost unfair to use that as a comparison.

Elminage games pretty popular dungeon-crawlers in Japan, though. They came out for platforms other than PC and Elminage Gothic is the first port to PC. Elminage Gothic is actually Elminage 4.

I don't know if they have a much smaller budget than the Wizardry games, but EG is a fine game no matter which game you choose to compare it to. I didn't even talk about the other more apparent strengths the game has. I am starting to feel like this is one of the best games I have ever played, that's how good I feel it is.

Is it better than Wiz 8? Who knows? It's all down to personal preference. I am sure Wiz 8 is a fine game as well as the original Wizardry games, but that doesn't mean you have to knock down Elminage Gothic to praise them.

We can like both franchises and both games, right?

Darkheart said:

I bought this during Summer Sale, fired it up… didn't make it out of char gen. I hadn't much of an idea what I was doing and the controls were clunky.
I'll give it another shot when I find the time or am very bored…

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It's worth another shot. The game is unforgiving, punishing, doesn't hold your hand and requires a large investment. The end result is an incredibly rewarding experience that is unlike anything you're likely to see in modern RPGs.

If you'd like to see a video or two that perhaps can help you figure things out, feel free to check my Elminage Gothic playlist on my YouTube channel. I have a few videos showing off character creation, inventory management, what to expect from the minute-to-minute gameplay and more.

Fluent said:

It's worth another shot. The game is unforgiving, punishing, doesn't hold your hand and requires a large investment. The end result is an incredibly rewarding experience that is unlike anything you're likely to see in modern RPGs.

If you'd like to see a video or two that perhaps can help you figure things out, feel free to check my Elminage Gothic playlist on my YouTube channel. I have a few videos showing off character creation, inventory management, what to expect from the minute-to-minute gameplay and more.

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Im a big fan of hard games, where my time preparations and cunning gets me through to the next cut-scene to the thrilling ending. For that matter i just wish most new games dont let you set your own difficulty level, and create a game that challenges the players to finish it with a clear design vision. Most difficulty settings are too generic and does not up the difficulty logically, just basically enemies have 50% more hp and hit 50% harder...

Dragonx said:

Im a big fan of hard games, where my time preparations and cunning gets me through to the next cut-scene to the thrilling ending. For that matter i just wish most new games dont let you set your own difficulty level, and create a game that challenges the players to finish it with a clear design vision. Most difficulty settings are too generic and does not up the difficulty logically, just basically enemies have 50% more hp and hit 50% harder…

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I would like to see more challenging games, for sure. I think Bard's Tale IV will hit a happy medium. The game will be challenging, but the "hardcore" features will be optional to the player. So, if we want more of a challenge by limiting map uses or limiting saving, we can have it, while the more casual player choose not to use those options.

Elminage Gothic just says the heck with it, this is a challenging game and will utterly destroy you. I, for one, love it.

Fluent said:

I would like to see more challenging games, for sure. I think Bard's Tale IV will hit a happy medium. The game will be challenging, but the "hardcore" features will be optional to the player. So, if we want more of a challenge by limiting map uses or limiting saving, we can have it, while the more casual player choose not to use those options.

Elminage Gothic just says the heck with it, this is a challenging game and will utterly destroy you. I, for one, love it.

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I hate saving limiting, as it can get tedious and its a lazy hardmode feature. As i stated previously, designers need to make it challenging even with save scumming.

I throughly enjoyed the first Dragon warrior rpg on nintendo or Dragon Quest 1 in Japan. At level 1 area zone if you i walk to a sw corner area i end up fighting level 20s mobs that my level 1 or 2 player will die easily, or i randomly end up fighting a Silver Metal slime rather a normal blue slime on the beginner zones and it was a no win situation, only a 50/50 run away chance can save me So challenging design should be implemented first off.
*btw killing the metal slime was possible at level 1 and it rewarded you with 3000 times more exp, just the metal slime had a 2% chance to hit and he runs away 75% of each turn**

I personally need to get off my ass and boot up rpgmaker ace VX and make a prototype of a challenging 2d rpg i have plans for in my mind lol Problem is i hate programming and i have no patience for coding, im more of a designer with ideas.

Dragonx said:

I hate saving limiting, as it can get tedious and its a lazy hardmode feature. As i stated previously, designers need to make it challenging even with save scumming.

I throughly enjoyed the first Dragon warrior rpg on nintendo or Dragon Quest 1 in Japan. At level 1 area zone if you i walk to a sw corner area i end up fighting level 20s mobs that my level 1 or 2 player will die easily, or i randomly end up fighting a Silver Metal slime rather a normal blue slime on the beginner zones and it was a no win situation, only a 50/50 run away chance can save me So challenging design should be implemented first off.
*btw killing the metal slime was possible at level 1 and it rewarded you with 3000 times more exp, just the metal slime had a 2% chance to hit and he runs away 75% of each turn**

I personally need to get off my ass and boot up rpgmaker ace VX and make a prototype of a challenging 2d rpg i have plans for in my mind lol Problem is i hate programming and i have no patience for coding, im more of a designer with ideas.

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Well, get some like-minded people together, form a team, work on the game and head to Kickstarter. Live the dream!

I have to disagree about save limiting being a lazy mechanic, though. Limited saving opens up a risk/reward feature. Consider it's use in the upcoming dungeon-crawl RPG, Bard's Tale IV. There will be an option to have limited saves, and perhaps even saving only being allowed at the Adventurer's Guild. This means that the farther and deeper you adventure in one sitting, the higher your reward will be, but also more risk is being taken. I like the idea of that system and think I will use a limited saving in that game when it releases. I hope there is a 15-30 minute limited save.

In Elminage Gothic, I find myself wishing there was a limited save feature, even though the game is already very difficult without one. Perhaps limiting your amount to save based on the floor you are on. On a typical dungeon level, 2 or 3 saves per level. On a smaller level, 2 saves, on larger levels, 3 to 5 saves, etc. Would just add another element of risk/reward to the game which I enjoy in these games.

Best part is, the feature can be turned off if you're not into that. Everyone wins.

Dragonx said:

I hate saving limiting, as it can get tedious and its a lazy hardmode feature. As i stated previously, designers need to make it challenging even with save scumming.

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I don't think it is really possible to make a game challenging whilst save scumming. The best you can do, perhaps, is make it frustrating and/or random. Elminage is based on Wiz 1 and when that was released it came on a floppy that only allowed a single save of progress. And the thing is the whole gameplay rationale of Wiz 1 and it's clones is that you can create and manage multiple parties, which can go down the dungeon and rescue other deceased characters. But if you are just use save scumming whenever you get defeated you miss out on this central gameplay mechanism... It is a team management game not a single party RPG. And that is how EG should be played too really for maximum impact.

Interestingly Darkest Dungeon is resurecting some of the team management gameplay elements of Wiz 1 and of course you can see Wiz influence in games such as XCOM EU. But, I do wish they would also use one of Wiz's central ideas of having multiple parties in the dungeon at once (as EG does). Unfortunately, like early Wiz, EG is a bit cumbersome to play - not helped by it's horrible console UI
and huge typeface.