Well, you may not know a priori until you listen. But I was talking in general and not about anything specific.
Why would you think I'm not listening?
(For the record: Those are your words, not mine.)
No. If there is one thing that I consider you NOT to be, that is an obnoxious moron. Otherwise I wouldn't be bothered with interchanging posts with you.
Well, that's always something
No. I am not merely validating an opinion. If that were the case, I would just simply "think" my opinion and not waste any effort writing about it.
Ok, it's just that I find lots of people seem to enjoy validating their first impression rather than actually keeping an open mind. Given your relatively strongly worded first post in this thread about it - that would seem to be your primary interest as well.
But I'm glad that I was wrong - as it means there's a chance we can understand each other.
First of all, I want to clarify that I am by no means questioning WHAT you are saying but rather HOW you convey your messsage. I am convinced that you would be much more successful in your communication with some fine tuning of your wording and tone.
If my goal was to get a pleasant and accomodating response, yes. But that's not really what I'm trying to do.
Naturally, it has to do with Joxer's style and his constant repetition of all action RPGs being "grinders". He's welcome to his opinion, naturally, but after having witnessed his last several posts carrying exactly the same message - I felt it was appropriate to point out that RPG elements are a part of the genre, regardless of what he personally thinks about it.
For example: I have noticed in some posts that you tend to go quickly (and IMO unnecessarily) into the offensive, without being provoked. In this particular thread you literally wrote "regardless of your delusional state" and with such words you cannot blame anyone for reacting negatively. To me that was a WTF moment and I literally thought to myself: "What the hell is this guy doing?". If your intention is to piss someone off and to get the upper hand then such wording is more than adequate but if not, then it is simply "unfortunate" and an unnecessary trigger.
I understand how you feel. I actually do that deliberately - but not because it pisses people off. I do it because it IS delusional to claim that character evolution through loot and upgrades isn't an RPG element.
The thing is, though, that I suspect Joxer understands this. He understands that such things belong in the RPG element category - he's just letting his distaste for "grinders" overshadow his sense of reason.
So, when I call him delusional - I do it thinking that he's most likely NOT delusional - I just want him to realise that the position he loves to repeat endless IS actually delusional - and his position is more about the emotional investment in a genre that he loves - as much as we all love RPGs.
So, I'm kinda "playing his game" in an effort to demonstrate how unreasonable his position is.
He's actually telling people that if they enjoy Action RPGs - they must love endless stupid grinding. That's a very aggressive and unreasonable claim - and you might say I don't think diplomacy is the way to respond appropriately. He's ridiculing Skyrim fans and those who enjoy these elements, if you read his responses.
So, I would probably have been less "antagonistic" if he was being reasonable. But I always take care to convey the message as accurately and truthful as possible. He's being delusional if he actually believes what he's saying - which I don't think he does.
My goal isn't to be "right" or to get him to admit it. My goal is to send a message that's clear - and that might be reflected upon in private after this debate is long since over.
Well, I am not going to lecture you on how to say things as that is simply not my business to do so. Then again, I am simply pointing out an alternative.
You're not the first one to do this, and I understand where you're coming from. I hear it from a lot of people - and I understand the cost involved. I'm not perceived as a particularly pleasant individual on most forums I visit - and that's ok.
But I can't go against my very firm belief that opinions should be rational and that emotional investment in the irrational will only harm the truth. I've been unable to find a way to convey precise messages through diplomacy - and I actually think it's incredibly harmful to the truth when we place too much emphasis on the emotional position of those who're part of the exchange.
Of course, any discourse is a lot more pleasant when everyone involved are emotionally "safe" - and we don't step on toes. But the end result is almost invariably watered down and based on wanting to feel good more than wanting to tell the truth.
Like, when your GF asks if something looks good on her - and you tell her what you think is appropriate. I'm the kind of guy who does his utmost to be honest in all these scenarios. Sometimes, I manage some diplomacy - because obviously I don't enjoy seeing my loved ones hurt - but if they're asking, I tell the truth even if it means I have to be unpleasant. As you can imagine, that's quite costly for a long-term relationship.
I'm just hardwired to want and desire truth - assuming it exists. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I think it is more related to its execution rather that the diplomacy in itself. Then again, no one said that good communication and diplomatic skills are easy to come by, quite the contrary. But IMO, knowing how to avoid "worsening" the flow of communication is a very valuable trait.
Yeah, many people seem to agree with that. I'm a relatively social individual - and I'm quite well liked both at my job and in my personal life. Might be hard to believe - but people actually come to appreciate my approach to these things. Not always - and there are always battles to be fought. But I'm not displeased by the overall result.
Online, however, is another matter altogether. I think it's because the fact that I don't take much of anything seriously is not conveyed very well. As in, I think we're all fundamentally flawed and completely full of crap and delusions. I don't take criticisms personally because I'm so used to looking at my own flaws - and I tend to agree with much of what people point out. Even when I don't - I recognise that most people aren't actually trying to be cruel - and if they are, it's a misunderstanding more than anything.
I think this is the most interesting and relevant comment. Have you ever thought to yourself why that occurs with such alarming frequency?
Yes, people don't like being confronted - and people tend to assume that when their feelings are hurt, it's because I want to hurt them - and not because I'm actually doing my best to be clear and honest. If I'm wrong - I will fully accept that, as long as it can be explained.
Just out of curiosity, does it only happen with on-line discussions or also in real-life?
Almost never in real life. People "get" me in real life - because I make it very, very clear that I think no more of myself than I do of them. I also use a lot of sarcastic/black humor when I point out flaws - and I tend to put things into perspective in a way that, apparently, most people accept.
What feedback do people give you that makes you conclude that the message is received loud and clear? Especially when they act negatively towards you.
Well, if we're talking about online communication - it's been my experience that the people who start out disliking me the most, are also those that tend to end up appreciating my approach the most. As in, even if I'm perceived as an arrogant prick by some people - at least they know exactly where I stand.
Of course, there are exceptions to this as well. But I've had several "feuds" with individuals on this site - and it seems that even if I'm still not particularly popular - the people in question have learned that I'm not really "just" a prick - I'm DArtagnan and I sometimes have a good point
That could be entirely my fantasy - but that's my impression.
Also, in real life - I've often had people come to me after several years and tell me that I was absolutely right, about this or that - especially regarding human relationships and states of mind. I tend to point out the most obvious things as soon as they become evident (without much sugarcoating) - and people naturally become very defensive - as we're talking about deeply personal things. But I only ever do it with the intention of helping people - and only when I'm truly convinced. I can be wrong, naturally, but there are certain things that people tend to not be aware of, precisely because other people are generally very polite and diplomatic about such things.
Most often people who are very close to me - and again, for whatever reason - I'm a relatively popular person and it seems people enjoy my company. Maybe it sounds immodest - but that's my interpretation of always being invited to things - and people commenting on wanting me at whatever social occasion.
I realise this sounds like self-glorification - and I might very well be delusional - as you can never truly know what people are saying behind your back. I'm sure lots of people think I'm an idiot - but if so, they're not conveying that message very successfuly IRL.
