Middle Eastern Justice

Squeek · April 17, 2008

Here's a lesson in Middle Eastern Justice about an 8-year old girl who was just granted a divorce from her 30-year old husband.

The court ruled in favor of the girl, not because she was only 8, but because it determined that she hadn't reached puberty; and husbands aren't allowed to force sex on their wives until then.

There are no provisions in the law for punishing men for this. In fact, the girl's family was ordered to compensate the husband.

What are we to think?

Prime Junta · April 17, 2008

That you enjoy the nice feeling of cultural superiority when reading (and posting) shock stories about backward countries that scare you?

dteowner · April 17, 2008

I expect the compensation was repayment of some sort of dowry, which isn't all that unreasonable if you think about it. Although the "husband" is clearly a pedophile creep, the people that deserve your scorn are the parents that basically sold their daughter. I'm not sure that has anything to do with the Middle East, though (isn't Yemen in Africa anyway?). We had a news story up in Indy a couple years ago about a couple that was pimping out their infant daughter to various pedophiles (yes, pimping for that).

KazikluBey · April 17, 2008

If the Prophet Muhammad did it, that settles it!!

[/obligatory-Aisha-reference]

dteowner said:
(isn't Yemen in Africa anyway?)

It's on the southwestern tip of Arabia.

zakhal · April 17, 2008

Well atleast they didnt stone her to death. Lucky gal.

nessosin · April 17, 2008

Prime Junta said:
That you enjoy the nice feeling of cultural superiority when reading (and posting) shock stories about backward countries that scare you?

I am not quite sure if Squeek does, but I certainly do feel superior.

magerette · April 17, 2008

Yes, this could never happen in America. Here our religion is clearly against this--well, unless you happened to be living here.

One of the main reasons I'm an agnostic tree hugger

Squeek · April 17, 2008

nessosin said:
I am not quite sure if Squeek does, but I certainly do feel superior.

PJ's welcome to his own values, assumptions and conclusions. I don't actually know why this story was reported, but I suppose it could be because the Associated Press was scared and feeling superior (or that I was when I read it and posted about it).

I'll say this, though. Unless he can read other people's minds, he's referencing his own thoughts and feelings in order to reach his conclusion.

V7 · April 17, 2008

Seriously Yemen is backward even by third world standards. Using it as an example of 'middle eastern justice' is a bit like picking the most egregious case you can find from some corrupt backward corner of Central America and calling that an example of 'American Justice'.

And completely unnecessary, I’m sure you could find some ugly stuff in some of the more developed countries in the region.

Prime Junta · April 17, 2008

I can't read minds, but I'm good at reading intent and unspoken assumptions, and I got a very clear reading of yours, thank you very much. "Trolling" is a word that springs to mind, and sadly I couldn't stop myself from taking the bait.

Prime Junta · April 17, 2008

V7 said:
Seriously Yemen is backward even by third world standards. Using it as an example of 'middle eastern justice' is a bit like picking the most egregious case you can find from some corrupt backward corner of Central America and calling that an example of 'American Justice'.

Funny, that's almost word for word my initial reply to Squeek's message; I never posted it though.

Prime Junta · April 18, 2008

nessosin said:
I am not quite sure if Squeek does, but I certainly do feel superior.

The people you choose to feel superior about says a lot about you. Feeling superior to the Yemenis is about as edifying as feeling superior to the Vikings. It's a super-traditional society; as close to a survival from the Middle Ages as anything you're likely to find nowadays. Women there aren't much better off than they were in Europe back then.

nessosin · April 18, 2008

Prime Junta said:
The people you choose to feel superior about says a lot about you. Feeling superior to the Yemenis is about as edifying as feeling superior to the Vikings. It's a super-traditional society; as close to a survival from the Middle Ages as anything you're likely to find nowadays. Women there aren't much better off than they were in Europe back then.

Okey you're clearly right about their "survival" type of life, but why shouldn't I consider my culture as a superior to theirs? If only in aspect of situations like that? Should I consider thier model of living as an example?

Prime Junta said:
I can't read minds

V7 said:

Seriously Yemen is backward even by third world standards. Using it as an example of 'middle eastern justice' is a bit like picking the most egregious case you can find from some corrupt backward corner of Central America and calling that an example of 'American Justice'.

Click to expand...

Funny, that's almost word for word my initial reply to Squeek's message; I never posted it though.

Maybe you cant read minds, but you do want us to read yours

.

Corwin · April 18, 2008

Hmmm...I guess there aren't any 8 year olds in either the US or Finland selling themselves on the streets. Poverty and frequently drugs are a very sad mix!!

Squeek · April 18, 2008

Prime Junta said:
I can't read minds, but I'm good at reading intent and unspoken assumptions, and I got a very clear reading of yours, thank you very much. "Trolling" is a word that springs to mind, and sadly I couldn't stop myself from taking the bait.

The article didn't express any opinions, and neither did my post. Yours was the first comment. So like it or not you're the sole source of the views you're attributing to others.

Not that I blame you for feeling superior. We can all see that something's out of whack. Your going on the attack in defense of what you, yourself, obviously feel is wrong indicates to me that you're confused. Maybe you should reconsider how you really feel and whether or not you think that's ok.

@ V7: Since I didn't make any arguments, I certainly didn't refer to anything as an example. The article reported what happened, and I merely asked what we were to think of it.

For what it's worth, I do see this as a sort of obvious example, though. The question is, an example of what? You don't seem to like it, but there's nothing at all wrong with discussing this. What happened is what's wrong. Talking about it isn't.

Remus · April 18, 2008

There are many similar shocking cases out there, and in different categories and different countries. What we often forgot when looking at these cases, is the understanding of the context in which those incidents occured, instead, we often see its from our own limited social perspective, base on own culture, religion, etc. So, we would felt very surprise, shocked. The world bigger than we think or we assume that we understand it all from our view point...

V7 · April 18, 2008

Squeek said:
The article didn't express any opinions, and neither did my post. Yours was the first comment. So like it or not you're the sole source of the views you're attributing to others.

@ V7: Since I didn't make any arguments, I certainly didn't refer to anything as an example. The article reported what happened, and I merely asked what we were to think of it.

Sorry but I've got to call you on this, you made what you thought quite plain with a title smearing dozens of countries and millions of people most of whom would be just as outraged at being called paedophiles as you would be. That you picked an egregious example from a backward country to make your point says more about you than 'middle eastern justice'. Frankly I'm impressed how much you managed to convey with three words.

If you're serious about wanting to know what to think the answer is obvious: traditional patriarchal tribal cultures have some pretty shocking attitudes toward women, but then I think you’d know that already.

V7 · April 18, 2008

nessosin said:
Okey you're clearly right about their "survival" type of life, but why shouldn't I consider my culture as a superior to theirs? If only in aspect of situations like that? Should I consider thier model of living as an example?

Did anyone suggest you shouldn't? Really if you're desperate for something to feel smug about look at the honor killings or the way rape victums are treated in some of these places.

Squeek · April 18, 2008

V7 said:
Sorry but I've got to call you on this, you made what you thought quite plain with a title smearing dozens of countries and millions of people most of whom would be just as outraged at being called paedophiles as you would be.

I titled this thread "Middle Eastern Justice" because, like it or not, this story is about real laws enforced by a real judge in a real legal system in a Middle Eastern country.

I didn't call anyone anything or smear anyone in any way. I simply asked, "What are we to think?" If you think the situation in Yemen is a disgrace, then I can understand why you would think that. If you think it speaks poorly of everyone in the region, then that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

But I won't be responsible for what you think. Your opinion is yours, not mine.

V7 · April 18, 2008

You’re being disingenuous, it’s not at all hard to choose a neutral title. Sure Yemen is located in the Middle East, Nicaragua is in the Americas and we don’t talk about American death squads. Referring to a country specific story by the region as you did implies you feel it applies to the region as a whole. Then you use a loaded word like ‘justice’ rather than decision or case implying that the people of the region somehow feel the outcome was fair and reasonable. A truly neutral title would have been something like ‘Yemeni Court Decision’ but I guess that’s not sensationalist enough.

I don't think the case speaks poorly of everyone in the region, but thats the way you framed the article.

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