Starcraft 2 announced!

I don't mind if they don't change a winning formula. To me, Command & Conquer 3 is the best C&C game to be released for years, and that's because it actually used the exact same recipe Westwood used originally for C&C1.

I'm the kind of guy that don't mind playing games with winning recipes over and over. Gothic 4? Use Gothic 1 recipe with updated graphics and gameplay -> there you go, amazing game!

Blizzard made Warcraft 3 a very good game even though it was released years after WC2. I think they'll do the same with SC2, so I'm looking forward to it.
 
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It's true that there are way too many RTS games out there, but how many of them are actually good? As someone who plays RTS games I can tell you that probably around 90% of them are garbage. StarCraft 2 will be a quality game that the genre needs.

And for those of you who are crying about things like "the graphics look outdated" or "there doesn't seem to be a lot of new units" why don't you calm down! Blizzard hasn't even revealed all of the units yet so what are you bitching about? As far as the graphics are concerned, what's the problem? They look to be on par with Supreme Commander or C&C 3. StarCraft isn't about graphics anyways, it's about gameplay. The first StarCraft didn't have the greatest graphics when it was released but it still blew away all the competing RTS games at the time.
 
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I don't mind if they don't change a winning formula. To me, Command & Conquer 3 is the best C&C game to be released for years, and that's because it actually used the exact same recipe Westwood used originally for C&C1.

I'm the kind of guy that don't mind playing games with winning recipes over and over. Gothic 4? Use Gothic 1 recipe with updated graphics and gameplay -> there you go, amazing game!

Blizzard made Warcraft 3 a very good game even though it was released years after WC2. I think they'll do the same with SC2, so I'm looking forward to it.

You somewhat indulge into a fallacy here. I may very well believe that you liked all these games, but the problem is that you cannot judge what you don't know. Of course you can say I liked C&C 3 because it worked exactely liked the prequels, but there is no way for you to know if you had not liked a C&C 3 with new features better...
The absence of innovation means stagnancy. And that means that some of the best games we saw in the past would have never been created if developers had not had the courage to try something new. That is also why the argument that innovation is always a risk is a very bad one really.

Thus said I have to admit that I have no idea what SC 2 will be like, I don't have any idea if it will have new features or not.
 
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It doesn't work exactly like the prequels, that's my whole point. It works exactly like the one with a winning recipe, which is C&C1, but with an extra faction, better controls and better graphics. Unlike Generals it didn't take only a single day to get through either, which is a plus.

Of course you need new elements, WC3 definetly had new stuff compared to WC2, but that means you spice up the recipe, not change it. There's a difference between making a clone and making a proper sequel - a clone would be identical, a sequel would have more of the same, but with sugar on top.

Remember, we're talking about sequels here, not completely new games. I'm all in for trying out new stuff, but in the middle of a game series is just not the right place for it. When you create a successful franchise, the fans want a certain something, and that's what you provide them. When you make a new series, such as Gothic back in the days, you need something that will make your particular game stand out, such as features the world has never seen before.

There's a difference between starting a new series, and continuing on an old one. In my opinion, developers should stick to the winning recipe which the series was based on when making sequels, but try something completely new when making new games. Clones are the result of something copying someone elses' game/series, a solid sequel is the result of a developer that manages to keep enough elements from the previous titles, but spice it up a bit.

What do people that cry for SC2 to be different than SC1 really want? New factions? New setting? There's only so many things you can do to alter the ways of a strategy game, and I honestly don't think the fans would be happy if Starcraft 2 suddenly came with different factions or a new setting. In fact, the original has reached such status by now you'd probably get a worldwide rebellion against Blizzard if they replaced one or more of the factions in Starcraft.
 
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Um....you're joking right? The original Warcraft put RTS games on the map.


*Edit* I'm not trying to imply that Warcraft was the first modern RTS,(that was Dune) but it was the first really great one. It was also the first to use a fantasy setting.

Um, no, I'm not. Being the one to put the genre on the map (via sales, I assume, is how you define "on the map") does not mean it was innovative. In fact, it's exactly what I said: they took an existing set of ideas, polished them, added a sprinkle of minor new features, and then QA'ed the crap out of it. That's their model and it works well.
 
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Um, no, I'm not. Being the one to put the genre on the map (via sales, I assume, is how you define "on the map") does not mean it was innovative. In fact, it's exactly what I said: they took an existing set of ideas, polished them, added a sprinkle of minor new features, and then QA'ed the crap out of it. That's their model and it works well.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that Warcraft was a clone of ..........?

Warcraft was innovative, it was the first RTS game set in a fantasy universe with appropriate archtypes: Orcs, Demons, wizards, etc and the ability to cast spells.

It was also a gamble for the company, as they had no idea if it was going to sell well or not due to the fact that RTS wasn't even an established genre at that time.
 
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Remember, we're talking about sequels here, not completely new games. I'm all in for trying out new stuff, but in the middle of a game series is just not the right place for it. When you create a successful franchise, the fans want a certain something, and that's what you provide them. When you make a new series, such as Gothic back in the days, you need something that will make your particular game stand out, such as features the world has never seen before.

That would probably the more conservative solution. I guess you can do it like that. But as Blizzard themselves have shown you can also do it differently. World of Warcraft was completely different than the Warcraft RTS games... Blizzard did not try to make another sequel, but something new. I bet they disappointed a few RTS fans with their decision to do something different within the Warcraft universe, but they also made a lot of new fans.
Personally I'm all for trying something new, simply because there are so many RTS games out there... but really new stuff? Developers hardly try to cross genre boundaries today... or even try to mix different genres. Unfortunately for most game types there are no possibilities for developement within thier own genre.
 
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World of Warcraft is no sequel, Warcraft 4 is the Warcraft 3 sequel and it has not been announced yet. Same franchise does not mean it's a sequel. I strongly feel that sequels should have a certain amount of similar features to even be called a sequel - is the new Might & Magic *really* a Might & Magic game/sequel? In my opinin it's not. Not even close.
 
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World of Warcraft is no sequel, Warcraft 4 is the Warcraft 3 sequel and it has not been announced yet. Same franchise does not mean it's a sequel.
Yes, mate... that's what I'm talking about - doing something different. World of Warcraft was something completely different. Who said that Starcraft must have a sequel that sticks to the RTS genre? I mean we're not discussing the definition of the word "sequel" here, are we? We were pretty much posting the feelings that we have towards Starcraft 2. And in my opinion this world just does not need another RTS game. Still, I like the fact that Blizzard has not forgotten the Starcraft universe (I kinda liked SC1) - I just would have prefered if they had come up something a bit more innovative than a simple RTS game.
 
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nothing new? --game was only announce yestarday. Can't you guys just wait for atleast more info before you start drawing any conlusion?

Best post in the thread thus far imho. I truly lol'd ='.'=

Right on, Zocky
 
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Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that Warcraft was a clone of ..........?

Warcraft was innovative, it was the first RTS game set in a fantasy universe with appropriate archtypes: Orcs, Demons, wizards, etc and the ability to cast spells.

It was also a gamble for the company, as they had no idea if it was going to sell well or not due to the fact that RTS wasn't even an established genre at that time.

Don't confuse what I'm saying with the "clone/not clone" part of this thread. I never claimed Blizzard only spits out clones.

I think we just define "innovation" differently. I don't think of being the first to choose the clichéd high fantasy setting for an RTS and taking a financial risk on a burgeoning genre as innovative. The fantasy setting is an obvious choice, so bully to them for doing it first, but it was hardly a stroke of genius. Taking a financial risk on a new-ish style of product takes cojones, but it's not innovation in my book.

When I'm thinking of innovation in the context of an RTS, I'm thinking of ideas such as adding a Hero unit with it's own development path (WB) and the idea of a company of units with their own behavior AI acting as a coordinated group (Kohan).
 
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I guess we do define it differently, if they were the first to do those things in that type of game then how could it not be innovative?

I also wouldn't consider a fantasy setting "clichéd" back in 1994. How many different settings are there to begin with that fit well into an RTS style of gaming? Not many. You basically have Sci Fi, Fantasy, Historic, or a combination of those.
 
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BTW, I assume you've checked out the gameplay videos? Leave it to Blizzard to be able to keep a lid on this for 4 years and then reveal when they've got it mostly done. It looks fantastic! Don't know where the "not up to snuff" graphics comments come from. Those dudes jetpacking up the cliffs just rocked, IMO.

As an aside in our innovative/not-innovative squabble, a quote from one of the GS articles on SC2 here:

"This is, after all a company that's never pushed the envelope in terms of graphic wonders or "big idea" innovations. Blizzard's genius has always been in execution -- the way it gets all the small things just right."

:p
 
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Well good for GameSpy, however that is simply one mans opinion, not fact.

I'm confident that SC2 will be an incredible game, of course there will be doubters, but Blizzard is one of the few companies that consistently delivers quality products.


*Edit* He's saying they never "pushed the envelope" for "big idea innovations". I would agree with that. He's not saying they've never done anything innovative altogether.
 
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*Edit* He's saying they never "pushed the envelope" for "big idea innovations". I would agree with that. He's not saying they've never done anything innovative altogether.

Ah, well, then we agree after all. :) I have no objection to your statement and didn't mean to imply the Blizzard never innovates in any manner at all vis a vis the dictionary definition of innovation = "something new". I was talking genre evolving innovations, not small detail improvements.
 
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I guess we agree to a point, however I still stand by the fact that the original WarCraft introduced a lot more than just "small detail improvements".
 
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Didnt WCIII bring "creeps" and hero units into the rts genre in a way? Those are two pretty big deals. I know some will say Kohan for the hero unit thing, but Kohan isnt necessarily an rts in the style of war/starcraft, age(s) of empires, rise of nations, empire earth, etc.
 
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Hero units were pioneered by the Warlords Battlecry series. And creeps were a classic Blizzard-style improvement on the already existing feature of random, neutral advesaries lying in wait for your poor, unsuspecting settlers and troops that was around at least as early as AoE if not earlier.
 
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I think Kings Bounty back in 1990 was the first game where I saw proper heroes that had any effect on the outcome of a battle. These heroes were not units though, Warlords Battlecry had the first real "hero units", altho Age of Wonders was probably the first game with heroes that was a real "hit"(it was quite popular for a strategy game, but nowhere near games like Starcraft or Warcraft). Truth be told, Warcraft 3 is, by far, the most popular game with such units, so it's not strange that people think WC3 introduced them.

Blizzard is in no way the king of innovation, but they are kings of doing it right. They take their time to make sure things are properly balanced, the new features they use that are inspired by others, work well together with old features they kept from their own games. Most developers released games far more often than Blizzard, despite having less resources. Blizzard spends whatever time and money is needed to make sure every game they make is a smash hit, capable of winning new fans. Twice they've been well on their way on a project, only to cancel it because the quality just wasn't high enough (the Warcraft adventure game and Starcraft: Ghost). Most developers/publishers would force the game out anyway.

Do they do this because they care so much for their fans? Of course not, it's a marketing strategy. Blizzard has become known as a rather exclusive developer of high qualiy. Whether it's true or not means little; their reputation right now is rock solid. However, they can't risk releasing a game that feels rushed or is filled with bugs, as their moneymaking reputation would take a serious blow.

Personally I prefer their strategy to the classic EA-pour-it-out strategy, but you'll never see something as innovative as Gothic from Blizzard, which is a shame. They certainly have the resources to do something completely new, but I doubt they will - they simply don't have a reason.
 
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