The Last Remnant - Wow!

figment said:

Yeah, I really like this game as well. I actually bought it again yesterday (independent of this post) due to it being part of the Humble Bundle which I topped up on some other Hitman and Deus Ex titles I was missing.

I quite like that they tried to solve the "grinding" problem in RPGs by making the game actually harder if you grind the game for XP. I do wish they made it more apparent and one can argue if it was successful but they really did make it more punishing.

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Thanks for the tip, bought that bundle too!

Interestingly enough, the game becomes a bit of an open-world affair as you progress further! It seems that some locations are optional to explore, and many new locations open up as you talk to different people and do different quests. Very cool stuff.

I know one thing this game is missing, though. An in-depth codex of information.

I would have LOVED to have seen a codex that kept track of information as you unlocked it. For example, after you fight "x" monster, it would appear in the codex, letting you know what components it drops, where it was located, and any other information you find out about it. That would have been incredible.

The reason I feel it's a big missing element is because if you want to hunt for components or find rare components, etc., you have to remember which creature drops them, and on which map that creature can be found. Kind of confusing at times.

If the game included a codex like that it would have been legendary. As it stands now it's just a masterpiece instead .

Fluent said:

I somewhat understand where you're coming from, because stats like Love, Mental Acuity, and all those special stats are not explained, but in a way, they are self explanatory, no? At least in the sense that when those stats get raised, you know something good is happening. A few of them, like Hardworking, Bravery, etc., make sense to just be raised, whereas some like Gluttony seem to be a hindrance.

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They are sadly not self-explanatory. While you can tell if they are good or bad for the most part, you don't really know how they interact. It is believed that there is some form of synergy between these types of stats between group members, and certain negative stat combinations can result in parties flat out refusing orders while Love works well with other positive emotions and can give you bonuses. There also seem to be some impact on what skills your characters actually end up using. But they never tell you which stats actually work together, and in the ended, this just made me frustrated, as I wanted to design good parties, but the game refused to give me the information I needed.

But to give up because of that is a mistake, IMO. Those stats are just a small part of the game. The actual depth and complexity of the game is not that hard to understand once you really dig in, and the rabbit hole goes very deep, even if a few things do remain a mystery.

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It's deep & complex, but it actually does not let you explore the depth that is there, as it withholds so much information. And, at least up to the point where I got to, there really was no need to explore the depth, as the game seemed to be designed with people not knowing what things does in mind. So my strategy, that worked almost 100% of the time was: Send one party towards every enemy part, to prevent flanking. Your parties are stronger than the enemy parties, as long as there's no boss in that particular enemy party.


The Last Remnant is a game that I really wish I would have liked, because there is a lot of depth to the system. Or well, there might be a lot of depth to the system, it's hard to tell. Had the game not been so afraid of letting the player know what's actually going on under the hood, I think it would have been a winner, but as it does not give such information, I just ended up being frustrated.

Fnord said:

They are sadly not self-explanatory. While you can tell if they are good or bad for the most part, you don't really know how they interact. It is believed that there is some form of synergy between these types of stats between group members, and certain negative stat combinations can result in parties flat out refusing orders while Love works well with other positive emotions and can give you bonuses. There also seem to be some impact on what skills your characters actually end up using. But they never tell you which stats actually work together, and in the ended, this just made me frustrated, as I wanted to design good parties, but the game refused to give me the information I needed.

I understand what you mean, but you can still design effective parties without knowing exactly how those stats are interacting.

Also, there are probably guides for the game online that explore the special stats further. But even without knowing what they do, you can still build a good party and it's still fun to do so.

My thing is, on the first play-through - go wild, explore everything and do what you think is best. If you want a little help, use a guide. Remember, a lot of games in the past relied on expert guides to learn the best possible strategies and tactics. The Last Remnant is old-school in that way. It's still very fun without a guide, but if you want the best possible strategies, weapons and tactics, you'd better look up the information you need on the web.

It's deep & complex, but it actually does not let you explore the depth that is there, as it withholds so much information. And, at least up to the point where I got to, there really was no need to explore the depth, as the game seemed to be designed with people not knowing what things does in mind. So my strategy, that worked almost 100% of the time was: Send one party towards every enemy part, to prevent flanking. Your parties are stronger than the enemy parties, as long as there's no boss in that particular enemy party.

I'm not sure how far you got, but I've already spent a few hours alone just exploring the depth of the battle system and character mechanics; designing formations, swapping party members, equipping everyone, etc. There is plenty of depth to explore and I think it is necessary to do so to survive the tougher battles.

I can't tell you how many times I've been slaughtered so far. I have died a lot, and challenge is not a question in this game, at least to me. If you get into tougher encounters, you will die. Once you figure out the best way to handle the situation, you will win.

For example, I just came from the Darken Forest, which was a tough area for me. Linking 3 enemies together could mean game over if things don't go your way. In order to overcome this I had to effectively use some strategy in battle. It certainly wasn't mindless. Keeping good formations, effectively using your unions that you hand built, properly using buffs in the form of arts and potions; all these things are important to look after and could mean the difference between winning and losing.


The Last Remnant is a game that I really wish I would have liked, because there is a lot of depth to the system. Or well, there might be a lot of depth to the system, it's hard to tell. Had the game not been so afraid of letting the player know what's actually going on under the hood, I think it would have been a winner, but as it does not give such information, I just ended up being frustrated.

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Well, I'm sorry to hear that you ended up frustrated. I'll say this, though. The game definitely would have benefited from giving more information in the game itself. I agree with that. Read my previous post about the codex of information in the game. That type of stuff would have been incredible and would have helped players like you to get into the game better. Sadly, the game doesn't include this stuff, so we're forced to use the web for the tricky stuff.

I am sorry to hear that you can't get into this game, because I do feel it's extremely well done and just a blast to play. But hey, I understand that certain things can hold gamers back from enjoying a game fully, so it is what it is.

I, on the other hand, am enjoying the game immensely. It's as good as Lost Odyssey for me, and that was the game of the century, IMO.

Are the battles random in TLR or can you see your enemies in the game world?

JDR13 said:

Are the battles random in TLR or can you see your enemies in the game world?

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You can see your enemies in the game world. You can avoid most battles if you wish, or kill everything on screen. Enemies re-spawn when you exit a zone and come back in, but you can clear a map and continue on the game easily.

A cool thing you can do is actually link enemies together. So let's say you see 3 different enemies on screen, you can slow down time and mark all 3 of them to enter battle with all 3 at the same time. The more enemies you link, the better the rewards for winning the battle. It gets pretty tough if you link some enemies, though, so you gotta be careful.

But yeah, you can see all enemies on the screen.

JDR13 said:

Are the battles random in TLR or can you see your enemies in the game world?

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You can see them and most are pretty easy to avoid. There's also a mechanic that lets you run between enemies and tag them (if they are fairly close together) so you can pick how many to fight against at once. That's actually a mechanic I really enjoy - I like trying to get enough to be a challenge. You can get better rewards (particularly from bosses) if you tag a few little monsters close by and beat them up first in a battle.

Those oddly named stats, as near as I can tell, do nothing at all. They *might* have something to do with how good the character is at doing something clever when their intended command no longer makes sense (like buffing when ordered to heal a union that's already fully healed) but that could also just be a matter of level.

The game will definitely kick you around if you try to pull the old "level up in an early area for 10+ hours" trick that works so well in most JRPGs. That's actually resulted in a lot of people getting downright paranoid, unfortunately. They'll run through entire levels avoiding as many fights as they can then exploit certain missions so they can bump up their stats/skills while keeping their level low. That's really not needed, IMHO. As long as you just fight the stuff you see instead of trying to revisit areas over and over, clearing them out every time, you should be fine.

There CAN be grinding in the game, though. There are some extra hard battles included outside of the main story plus an entire dungeon that were DLC in the XBox version but have now been included in the game. For the hardest of those, you're going to need very good gear and to get very good gear, you'll need to go hunting some critters for some rare drops. You'll also need to advance your status in the guilds, which occasionally means defeating a rare monster that only occasionally spawn.

The biggest problem I see with the game is the lack of a "codex," as Fluent mentioned. You want to upgrade that Superior Javelin to Superlative Javelin? Well, you'll need a war dragon fang for that. Now let's see, where did those drop? There have been lots of dragons, which ones were the war dragons? Uhhh… The Wikia pages will take care of that, no problem. You can also get a great walk through, information about all the characters you can hire, and info on tweaking the INI so you can get nicer graphics and less texture pop-in.

There's also a few Steam Guides to help you on your way. (Yeah, I wrote half of them. Despite my beefs with some parts of the game, I really like it over all!)

Damn guys, I am LOVING this game!

Just took down Hellbiter, a rare monster. What a battle! I thought I'd never win. He had me down to one union at one point, but luckily it was a union that could revive the others. So I ended up carefully bringing back all the other unions, and somehow, someway we finally killed him with 3 unions out of 4 intact. That damn Laserbreath attack he used was an insta-kill, so it was very difficult to get any footing against him, but the Specialist in my party really came through huge by poisoning Hellbiter near the end of the battle. The poison was so strong that it was did a few hundred damage, but then critical hit for over 3k damage, and that was the end of Hellbiter.

The bad part about this game, though, is what happened next. I captured Hellbiter and had a choice that I had to make on the spot. Either capture Hellbiter to sell for gold, or break him apart and harvest him for components. Sadly, I didn't know what any of the components did, and I didn't think to look it up at the time, so I just captured him to sell for money. If only there was a way to look that stuff up in the game, that would be sweet, but alas, from now on I will check a guide before making that choice!

Awesome game, though. Square Enix is back on my radar in a big way.

I wasn't even aware that TLR was a Square-Enix title. I was also surprised to see that it uses the Unreal 3 engine.

So now that I have the game, is there any getting started guide? any graphics tweaks or such, or just init the ini file? how to edit that ?

GothicGothicness said:

So now that I have the game, is there any getting started guide? any graphics tweaks or such, or just init the ini file? how to edit that ?

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http://lastremnant.wikia.com/wiki/PC_Tweaking

Fluent said:

The reason I feel it's a big missing element is because if you want to hunt for components or find rare components, etc., you have to remember which creature drops them, and on which map that creature can be found. Kind of confusing at times.

If the game included a codex like that it would have been legendary. As it stands now it's just a masterpiece instead .

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Basically, you're saying that a MMOlike grinder - is a masterpiece?

Sorry. I didn't play it and reading that you have to grind for "rare components" basically makes it not buying ever for me. The sad truth is that noone ever mentioned that for this game. So thank you for sharing it.

Just to mention again, I'm currently playing that other jRPG port on PC (The Legend Of Heroes: Trails In The Sky) that is by no means a masterpiece but I bet is superior to TLR because:
- yes you'll get a rare drop again if you kill the mob once more, but if you go on it for third or more times => no rares! rares in this game are just crystals or healing items, not components, in fact:
- rare components? what's that? there are no rare components here, especially not rare components that would force you into grinding, all mobs drop components but there is no component or rare item exclusive to one mob type
- you went up level? less XP from mobs! 0XP if you're too "big" for them.
- you hate grinding of any kind? okay, here's a questing reward item called Haze that prevents mobs from detecting you completely and they won't attack you (unless you cross their path)


But okay, keep the info coming. What else is adapted from MMOs? Can you save anywhere or not?

joxer said:

Basically, you're saying that a MMOlike grinder - is a masterpiece?

Sorry. I didn't play it and reading that you have to grind for "rare components" basically makes it not buying ever for me. The sad truth is that noone ever mentioned that for this game. So thank you for sharing it.

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Why do you keep saying it's a "grinder" when it's been said repeatedly that it is NOT a grinder. I did not grind even one bit on that game, played it for 100 hours, finished it and loved it. There are *optional* fights and *optional* items that you can ignore where grinding is needed. I hate grinding as much as you do, so I just skipped those. Didn't lower my enjoyment for the game at all, probably actually made me enjoy it more, as the game does get more difficult if you do grind. Yes, the developers actually make it harder if you grind, discouraging it, but put some extra *optional* things for those who feel like they need to grind.

Again, there is NO grinding required. I would have uninstalled the game really quick if that was the case.

I'm saying it's a grinder because he says "rare components".

If components are rare, the only way to get them is...

I am woundering, should I try to play without equipping my companions first and see whatever I need to do it or not? As I understand it is possible to by mistake override their equipments by mistake if you don't know what you are doing?

At 3:23 in this review he says "at some point you're actually going to have to do some grinding"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bgVwW8qSFY

joxer said:

Basically, you're saying that a MMOlike grinder - is a masterpiece?

Sorry. I didn't play it and reading that you have to grind for "rare components" basically makes it not buying ever for me. The sad truth is that noone ever mentioned that for this game. So thank you for sharing it.

Just to mention again, I'm currently playing that other jRPG port on PC (The Legend Of Heroes: Trails In The Sky) that is by no means a masterpiece but I bet is superior to TLR because:
- yes you'll get a rare drop again if you kill the mob once more, but if you go on it for third or more times => no rares! rares in this game are just crystals or healing items, not components, in fact:
- rare components? what's that? there are no rare components here, especially not rare components that would force you into grinding, all mobs drop components but there is no component or rare item exclusive to one mob type
- you went up level? less XP from mobs! 0XP if you're too "big" for them.
- you hate grinding of any kind? okay, here's a questing reward item called Haze that prevents mobs from detecting you completely and they won't attack you (unless you cross their path)


But okay, keep the info coming. What else is adapted from MMOs? Can you save anywhere or not?

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You can save anywhere.

The game is not an MMO nor does it resemble one.

The rare components are drops from rare monsters that only spawn under certain conditions, and/or rare items that drop from normal monsters but have a lower drop chance. Going after these items is completely optional. In fact, you can craft quite powerful items without grinding at all, just by killing the monsters on your path as you progress the story.

Personally, I find the hunting of rare items quite fun. I am the type that wants to craft the best items available as soon as possible.

I already can craft a few powerful items and I didn't grind for those components at all. In fact, I have really grinded at all yet, but I do try to kill everything I see and hoard components. Never know when you'll need that Large Feather or whatever... .

joxer said:

I'm saying it's a grinder because he says "rare components".

If components are rare, the only way to get them is…

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Sure, there's probably some items that require grinding a bit as they might be really rare, but for the most part you can just ignore that if you don't want to do it and just play through the story and side quests.

By the way, there are a ton of side quests and they are interesting to do. They aren't voice acted like the main story, but they have good writing and some interesting minor characters.

GothicGothicness said:

I am woundering, should I try to play without equipping my companions first and see whatever I need to do it or not? As I understand it is possible to by mistake override their equipments by mistake if you don't know what you are doing?

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I am equipping my companions and it works well. It did overwrite one thing - one of my party members requested a Club after a battle, I let him have it and he equipped it, overwriting what was there. The rest of the time, though, I just equip them and it works great.

I was never interested into voice acting. Better not to include it than making some crap VO.

Saving anywhere sounds good.
Okay, I'll download and install demo just to see (1 gig on gamershell).

One thing is still unclear to me. On SquareEnix store PC min specs it mentions support of xbox controller - does that mean I can't play it without it?!

http://store.na.square-enix.com/sto...oryId.57606100/parentCategoryID.#.U-JHpmP5c8I

joxer said:

One thing is still unclear to me. On SquareEnix store PC min specs it mentions support of xbox controller - does that mean I can't play it without it?!

http://store.na.square-enix.com/sto...oryId.57606100/parentCategoryID.#.U-JHpmP5c8I

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You can play with keyboard and mouse or controller.

I'm continually impressed by the game's AI.

Your party members are not stupid. If you've chosen for them to heal another union, they will, and if the unit fully recovers, the healers won't waste healing on them if they don't need it.

Also, occasionally one of your units will do something clever instead of just being idle, such as casting a speed buff spell, or using a strength potion.

It seems like they are very smart and they don't waste turns doing dumb things. Only once or twice have I actually seen them do something questionable, but in the end it was my own fault for issuing them those orders.

All in all, I think the AI is really nice here, and it makes the game and combat system quite enjoyable.