Ultima IV - Unplayable @ The Brainy Gamer

Just imagine if these "students" tried out Dwarf Fortress. I wonder how many of them would rather quit the class than learn how to play that one? ;) I still can't believe these kids aren't in elementary school.

BTW, I loved Idiocracy. IIRC, it didn't do too well at the box office. I think it scared too many people.

Comin' up next on The Violence Channel: An all-new "Ow, My Balls!"
 
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You forgot the Calculator.

When I got to the University (Computer Sciences), I didn't have the right to use the calculator for maths examen (you know Algebra, Calculus, etc). It took a few months to get used to calculate fractions for a 5x5 matrix by hand, but after 1 year, you didn't need the calculator to help you count.

And before the calculator I am sure that when the first slide rules came out people were lamenting how the kids these days can't do all the math in their heads. And when the hammer was invented the old carpenters were bemoaning how lazy the kids were for not driving nails in with their foreheads or something. And, wait a second...

Hey! You damn kids GET OFF MY LAWN!! :shakefist:

Now, what were we discussing again?
 
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What's with all this bickering about todays youth? Is this the "Three Ogres - Home for Elderly CRPG Players"? Every generation unlearns some stuff the previous generation valued (my grandpa thought I was only half a man, because I didn't fix my own car). And will learn things the last one never did. That's the way of the world, and it has never much impeded -nor improved- mankinds capacity to make a fool of itself.
 
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What's with all this bickering about todays youth? Is this the "Three Ogres - Home for Elderly CRPG Players"? Every generation unlearns some stuff the previous generation valued (my grandpa thought I was only half a man, because I didn't fix my own car). And will learn things the last one never did. That's the way of the world, and it has never much impeded -nor improved- mankinds capacity to make a fool of itself.

It doesn't mean I have to like it when these students can't even be bothered to use their brains for a change. Especially since the market will make games for these people and we'll be stuck in limbo as usual. That's why I love indies. At least we'll get thrown a bone every now and then.

I like a lot of today's rpgs, but I would love to play a good old fashioned 6 or 8 party dungeon crawl like Wizardry. No way in hell that's getting made by any AAA publisher.....That reminds me isn't Grimoire supposed to be released soon ;)
 
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What's with all this bickering about todays youth? Is this the "Three Ogres - Home for Elderly CRPG Players"? Every generation unlearns some stuff the previous generation valued (my grandpa thought I was only half a man, because I didn't fix my own car). And will learn things the last one never did. That's the way of the world, and it has never much impeded -nor improved- mankinds capacity to make a fool of itself.

But the difference now is that the mechanical world has gotten so far as to start to make physical labor or human thinking pointless that's a huge difference with earlier generations... another thing is that there are a lot of 82 years old which are now in better health than 30 year olds.... so to take the elevator from the garage to the car to the TV is actually not a good trend. Neither is opening calculator in windows to calculate 1 + 1 :D
 
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But the difference now is that the mechanical world has gotten so far as to start to make physical labor or human thinking pointless that's a huge difference with earlier generations…

I've recently been reading a rather frightening article on the recent financial crisis.

It works so right now that Mathematicans of any kind do actually feed computers with numbers so they (the computers) might be able to predict uman behaviour in terms of buying and selling on markets, which in turn makes hese computers sell or buy stuck on a stock market.

They've already given up thinking.

The article can be found here : http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-70417359.html

It's in German, but I'll translate the relevant parts with the help of the googletranslator :

In the case of London's Fund has so far not much more hooked. The company jumps on trends like the good surfers on the wave, is not something she wanted to invent ingenious ideas constantly new methods of money making. Of the 200 employees, 100 scientists, just imagine, there are mathematicians, statisticians, nuclear physicists, biochemists, whose primary task is to make the markets is predictable and calculable human weaknesses. This is the credo of this force, in her the best graduates from Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford are assembled; economy, the least studied.

Analyzing human behavior and takes the man as he is or how it imagines: impatient undisciplined, is subjective, greedy, arrogant and always reality-rather, just as it in internal brochures of the company. On knowledge and understanding of these properties ultimately found success or failure, and the best hedge funds manage to translate this as in London, in the binary language of computers.

You have to take leave of the imagination, trained at the old greats like George Soros or Warren Buffett, that investors are master thinkers with wide suspenders, to assess the world situation with a sharp mind and then calmly take their decisions. I bowled that George Soros, the British pound in isolation from the European currency composite, was always a legend. Soros has also swam in a large swarm of decision-makers, whose collective actions were only for the most "market event".

Today's hedge fund managers do not sit together and discuss whether Greek savings plans are appropriate, whether Thailand's government may hold, or whether or not Angela Merkel says. They rather feed their machines with new data, material in a computer whose hard drives are already full to the brim with numbers anyway, and they - the engine, based on mathematical models - from spit out, what to do in this or that situation best .

Everything is fed to which economic statistics have to be, preferably on a back to the beginning of mankind. The computers are of this London hedge fund, even if that sounds like a joke, with bank data from the 17 Century fed with budget figures of the Florentine Republic during the time of the Renaissance, with market statistics from war and crisis. How British government bonds during the French Revolution have developed? What influence did the Crimean War? What phases had the boom before the First World War? As the crash ran after the second Gulf War?

From this incredible wealth of data, an unimaginable mess of numbers, can be, which is the hope, patterns, recurring patterns, probabilities of future developments, structures of the human herd instinct be derived. Compile hope and fear, lust and caution in numbers. The fact that European leaders take decisions that they put together rescue packages for Greece, the machines, so to speak, really care.

The hedge fund handles its business to 95 percent from fully automated, computer analysis of curves and courses, global prices and interest rates, and in certain situations makes it easy to click - and the machine bought or sold positions, no matter what politicians decide straight or editorialists write . The people are in this system only there to keep the computers up to date to maintain their software to adjust the algorithms to eliminate bugs. They invest millions every year in the in-house research, half of the current budget goes, it always, as in the Audi's slogan is, to lead through technology.
 
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Just imagine if these "students" tried out Dwarf Fortress. I wonder how many of them would rather quit the class than learn how to play that one? ;) I still can't believe these kids aren't in elementary school.

BTW, I loved Idiocracy. IIRC, it didn't do too well at the box office. I think it scared too many people.

Comin' up next on The Violence Channel: An all-new "Ow, My Balls!"

Yes well, let's just keep in mind that you have on many occasions proclaimed to be a retro gamer and to vastly prefer retro games over newer ones. Consequently one might say that you're still living in the 80'ies as far as gaming is concerned, making you more than a little biased in this case. Heck, a game like Ultima IV must feel brand new to you.

And just for the record: just because someone doesn't share your love of the so-called "good old days", they are not necessarily stupid.
 
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I don't really think anything negative about these students.

At the time U4 was released, games in general were pretty rare. Computer games were especially rare. Computer RPGs rarer still. Back in those days, complicated was 'in' - the more archaic the better. While the compendiums provided a lot of background and lore, many game mechanics and items were totally undisclosed, left for you to discover in-game on your own. And i loved that.

I also like driving my car. But i have ZERO desire to find a model A and learn how to drive it and maintain it.

I also like listening to music, but I feel ZERO desire to listen to my old LPs collecting dust in my attic, or searching out an 8-track player to hear recordings from my dad's era.

Technology constantly evolves. The contemporary games these students play today will be the relics of the next generation.

It's just the way life is.
 
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With this whole scenario - I do see a big problem. Many of the students weren't able to problem solve how to play the game. They didn't pay attention to everything they were provided. Think of the whole thing, game and pdfs as a puzzle. A brief glance at the pdfs would have given major clues on how to play the game. It isn't necessarily about how well you play the game, but it can be how well you apply proper logic skills in real life scenarios - think for yourself. They shouldn't have to be told that they need to read a manual.

I don't mind that they were frustrated with the game because of the technology of the time. I have no desire to play it again. I also have no inkling to try and learn dwarf fortress again - not because I couldn't do it, but because I can't be bothered learning all the mechanics to it. :p
 
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If anyone plays these old games without premade maps…his life must be very sad. Hell yeah ive played som classics but Im not stupid enough to force myself to handwrite through them. No way. Good luck though to the teacher.

Thats about all I have to say.
 
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Yes well, let's just keep in mind that you have on many occasions proclaimed to be a retro gamer and to vastly prefer retro games over newer ones. Consequently one might say that you're still living in the 80'ies as far as gaming is concerned, making you more than a little biased in this case. Heck, a game like Ultima IV must feel brand new to you.

And just for the record: just because someone doesn't share your love of the so-called "good old days", they are not necessarily stupid.

I know these kids today won't enjoy games I like, BUT here is the thing and I have said this many times, they couldn't do it when it was assigned as homework. They couldn't read the manual, they couldn't use a keyboard, they couldn't take notes, they couldn't problem solve, and I'm sure there are a lot of other "they couldn't" sentences that I'm not thinking of at the moment.

That is what boggles my mind. I could give a rats ass if they enjoy it or not. The fact that they can't play it does make them stupid. It's like if something isn't holding their hand showing them exactly what to do then they just give up or sit there for hours………

So, yes, it does make them stupid if they can't open up a manual and read the directions. BTW, there is nothing wrong with being stupid. I'm not exactly the brightest light bulb out there :) Plus, Idiocracy shows us that even stupid people can live kick ass lives:

There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now.
 
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Plus, Idiocracy shows us that even stupid people can live kick ass lives:

There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now.


I just caught Idiocracy again the other day on Comedy Central. Dax Shepard's character is what makes the movie for me.

"Go away… I'm batin!" :lol:
 
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I don't want to make this thread an Idoicracy quote marathon, but I have to add one more. It just seemed to fit too well into this conversation :D

Rita: You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?
Pvt. Joe Bowers: Yeah. Hadn't thought of that.
Rita: Now you know why he built that bomb.


@JDR He was great in that movie.
 
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This article is a little disheartening but nothing totally unexpected. As a teacher, I encounter the various prejudices and issues against classic role-playing games fairly regularly and do my best to reason with them by discussion. It's difficult to get them on side (particularly those who just enjoy fps) or to encourage them to stretch their mentality a little and step outside the graphical box as it were, to utilise their imaginations more and put that extra bit of effort into playing and learning a game.

As a specific example, my brother has a gamer mate who is 18 and lives near me that is quite keen on modern cRPGS (Oblivion, ME 1/2, DAO,) I've tried many times to give him hand me down copies of classics (Fallout, System Shock, Baldur's Gate II) but he simply refuses to play them despite being quite willing to play through the likes of Fallout 3 and anything else with what he considers to be fun and immersive. Whilst I do my best to preach a game's virtues, he seemingly finds either the perspective or graphics too primitive for him to get into. This is fair enough I suppose considering what games he began with, but it
Irritatingly and recently, he downloaded Divinity 2, not caring for the fact that I own Divine Divinity - nor even showing the slightest iota of interest in playing it beforehand!

He's a Gothic fan, which is probably his main saving grace. I'll keep working on him though. ;)

I really do reject the notion of a game being once playable and suddenly not being so anymore, as it seems to denote a kind of rigid mind-set that is all based on expectation, desire and either an inability or unwillingness to adapt or change to suit the requirements of a game. U4 was a wonderful experience, a philosophical revelation to me when I played it in 2000 or so. Whilst I might not be able to immediately get back into it - the habits of mind would quickly return to me if I had the time, desire and energy to do so.

I guess my conclusion would be, if there was one - get them started playing classics at an even earlier age! (Before they encounter the Xbawks and playstations of the world) and perhaps their unshaped expectations (Tabula Rasa) and encounters with games, would make it easier for them to form a relationship the great Ultima's of the world.
 
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