Wasteland 2 - Kickstarter Successful!

It has passed 1 million.

17,584 people have pledged $1,003,072 for a dead genre on a dead platform. In like a 2 day timespan. This makes me giddy.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/0...ture-of-game-publishing-an-interview-with-br/
This is probably all just PR nonsense, but he knows all right things to say.
"But the most important thing is that we don't compromise the PC version in any way shape or form for other formats."

"I want this game to be comfortable for either a Wasteland of Fallout 1/2 player to be able to step into like a comfortable pair of shoes."

How long do you guys think it will take to make? Maybe a 1 1/2 to 2 years? I'm going to need to play Wasteland before it's released.

jwmeep said:

17,584 people have pledged $1,003,072 for a dead genre on a dead platform. In like a 2 day timespan. This makes me giddy.

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It makes me happy too, but we still shouldn't blow it out of proportion. I suspect we're still looking at niche product sales numbers -- hundreds of thousands of copies, not millions. This isn't going to drive EA out of business; it may not even get their attention. But who cares? What I'm hoping to see is the development of a funding and business model in which developers can make a decent living creating the kinds of games they want to create, selling them to people who want to buy and play them. Leave the mass appeal blockbusters to the large publishers.

khaight said:

It makes me happy too, but we still shouldn't blow it out of proportion. I suspect we're still looking at niche product sales numbers — hundreds of thousands of copies, not millions. This isn't going to drive EA out of business; it may not even get their attention. But who cares? What I'm hoping to see is the development of a funding and business model in which developers can make a decent living creating the kinds of games they want to create, selling them to people who want to buy and play them. Leave the mass appeal blockbusters to the large publishers.

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Pretty much. Like Tim Schaffer said in one of his interviews, 2 or 3 million is nothing to a publisher, they don't care about stuff like this. They shoot for billions in profits. A niche like this won't mean anything to them. But like you said "who cares" for us, living in the niche, with nothing to go on but a few indie games (which I'm really grateful for by the way. Don't give up Rampant Coyote, I want Frayed Knights 2), or stuff by foreign devs who don't have to put up with the money games, this is fantastic news. Worst case scenario, nobody buys this game, since anyone interested already paid. Even then at very least InXile breaks even, and was able to pay people for a year or two, and we get a game that's hopefully like the ones we used to love.

Yes, this isn't going to change publishing, the big boys aren't going away. But at least now there is a chance that some of these old school games with more complex gameplay can get made. And yeah, we are going to see a ton of crappy kickstarter projects, and I fear the day somebody raises a ton of money, and just gives the audience a gamemaker product he threw together in a half an hour, and takes all the money and runs. In the meantime though, I do hope we see a resurgence of "dead" genres like space sims, mecha sims, and the like.

I think the real key is to show, potentially, to the developers that there ARE markets for these games. If they make a really good game, its going to sell a lot of copies beyond the ones given to the 'donors.'

jwmeep said:

Well done Mr Fargo. Now don't mess this up. Even though I kicked in 50 bucks, I'm still a bit skeptical given Inxile's past history. Still hiring all those guys who worked on Wasteland was a great PR move.

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Pretty much my exact sentiment.

I hope this will be a good slap in the face for the publishers/developers/gamers who think that old school RPGs are dead. Now all we need are a Icewind Dale 3, a Planescape Torment 2, a Might&Magic 10, a Wizardy 9, an Arcanum 2, an Ultima 10 and a Divine Divinity 2 Kickstarter projects to launch. I'm ready to take credits from banks in order to support these (And my wife probably would divorce me for that)

Why all this focus on big publishers, and whether or not they will "get it" or whether or not it will impact their business model? I couldn't care less. They've got their market and they're welcome to it.

Indie all the way, baby!

People need to calm down. Like several posters have already pointed out - this is not a kick in the nuts to big publishers. We're talking about funding an indie game here, not a major blockbuster. A medium size developer like Obsidian burns $1.000.000 per month, imagine what Blizzard, BioWare and so on spend? Or publishers like EA?

I really hope it works out though, as it could mean an "indie+" industry, where we get RPGs that are bigger than indies, but still not big enough to be targeted towards the mass market.

Tell us about the game. How true to the original do you plan to make it?

I want this game to be comfortable for either a Wasteland of Fallout 1/2 player to be able to step into like a comfortable pair of shoes. Obviously the graphics need to be updated and will have different combat systems etc. but there is a tone, stats, and interface that comes with the RPGs from that era. People are very clear about wanting THAT experience and none of this "re-imagining" business. The game will initially take place in the (American) southwest with you controlling a band of desert rangers like the first game. The game will have scope and scale like both Wasteland and Fallout; it will be open-world in the sense that we don't lead you around by the nose; it will have multiple approaches to most things to avoid the moralistic "right" solution; it will be skill based; NPCs will join the group and not always behave like you want, and it will not require hand-eye coordination. Oh, and tons of weapons so people can shoot their way through situations instead of charming anyone.

Interview over at Massively.

Maylander said:

People need to calm down. Like several posters have already pointed out - this is not a kick in the nuts to big publishers. We're talking about funding an indie game here, not a major blockbuster. A medium size developer like Obsidian burns $1.000.000 per month, imagine what Blizzard, BioWare and so on spend? Or publishers like EA?

I really hope it works out though, as it could mean an "indie+" industry, where we get RPGs that are bigger than indies, but still not big enough to be targeted towards the mass market.

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Yes, it's not big enough to targeted at mass market. But, this is the best part of this crowd funding business model. In crowd funding developers do not have to worry about mass market. They don't need them to buy their games. They only try to appease the niche market they targeted. And it's not a risky investment for the developer, because you alrealdy sold your game to them. And in the end if the finished product will sell more, it will only consider as profit. Gamers in this niche market also obtain the games that they really want. Old school gameplay with decent graphics, sounds, interface, etc. It's a win-win situation for both gamers and developers.

Part of the problem with the big publishers is the perceived need to 'race to the top'. As publicly-traded companies they have a financial responsibility to maximize their profits on behalf of their shareholders. This creates a pressure to make games with very large budgets and correspondingly large market appeal. And it's a simple fact that the number of people interested in buying a hard-core CRPG is insufficient to make a hundred million dollar development budget pay off in sales. The market just doesn't have the dollars to play at that level.

Making a game requires up-front investment and that money has to come from somewhere. If the only source for it is a large publisher, and the large publisher faces economic incentives that require them to make products that sell millions of units, then the investment money won't be forthcoming for the small-scale products. The result is niche markets that don't get served well -- they have to settle for mass appeal products that don't fully address their desires.

Traditional indie development addresses this by serious down-scaling, cutting the development costs down to the level where significant outside funding is not necessary. But this imposes limitations on the games that can be made and the time available to make them. Jeff Vogel used the same character art for all six Avernum games. Jay Barnson is working a day job to support his family while he works on Frayed Knights on the side. And so on.

What's missing is the infrastructure to sustain companies in the middle -- making games that cost a hundredth of what the mass market blockbusters cost, and sell a hundredth as well. Kickstarter may point the way to bridging that gap. Even so, it's early days. Both of the high-profile successes here depended critically on factors that may not be easy to replicate more generally (Tim Schaefer and Brian Fargo's reputation, people's fond memory of the original Wasteland, etc). I suspect that if some developer we'd never heard of, with no track record, put up an equivalent Kickstarter request for making an all-new old-school hard-core CRPG the result would be crickets -- and not money-bearing ones. For projects of this magnitude reputation and a track record are vital.

Grimlorn said:

How long do you guys think it will take to make? Maybe a 1 1/2 to 2 years? I'm going to need to play Wasteland before it's released.

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18 months according to the devs.

I already got The Ultimate RPG archives on ebay a few months back to get to replay wasteland. Now I need a cheap win '95 PC and time to play.

Kickstarter getting a cut doesn't disturb me. One can't hail the revolution and then spit on the medium that made it possible. KS also won the lottery - there are plenty of competitors that are getting turned into an undertaker's nightmare

I think people may be wrong when they say the big publishers don't care about this. Remember how all of the big publishers jumped into casual games? And into social games? Yeah, there was some big money going around (especially in the latter), but they won't ignore stuff like this, either.

But while I like to characterize it as a kick in the butt / smack in the face to the big publishers, it's not that, either. You have to realize how these guys play ball. They are big and cautious (duh!). They let others take the risks, watch carefully, and then swoop in with their money to either buy out or clobber the survivors.

I don't think they are going to see this as a trend, yet, however. More of an anomaly. Now if people like Charles Clerc and Jeff Vogel and Thomas Riegsecker and yours truly all start getting stinking rich alongside the InXile crew making these kinds of games, THEN you are going to see movement from the big publisher front. They'll tell each other that "the market has changed" (because, you know, it wasn't that THEY just couldn't be bothered to make decent games to address a substantial niche… it's because the market didn't exist until they started paying attention, of course). And THEN you are going to see a hell of a lot of old franchises getting dusted off, because jumping into what is now an unfamiliar subgenre with a "new" franchise is just too risky.

And there are maybe a few who are seeing another pillar of the game-publishing industry - financing - starting to shiver. First it was distribution, now financing... they still have marketing, but if I were a bigwig at a major game studio I might be either planning for a shorter horizon on my personal exit strategy if I wanted to leave triumphant, or start figuring out a way to reinvent my company.

We could be in for some interesting times. But I wouldn't start counting my chickens just yet. But I've no doubt there are several high-level managers right now who are paying attention to the Double Fine Adventure and Wasteland 2 bids with interest.

RampantCoyote said:

Now if people like Charles Clerc and Jeff Vogel and Thomas Riegsecker and yours truly all start getting stinking rich alongside the InXile crew making these kinds of games, THEN you are going to see movement from the big publisher front.

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My point is that I doubt people are going to get 'stinking rich' out of this. I just don't think the hard-core market is large enough to let people get rich making these kinds of games. I do think it's large enough to let people make a decent living at it, though, and that's what I hope to see.

The thing that might get the attention of the big publishers would be brain drain. If they find that their key talent is leaving them to make smaller-scale but more personally rewarding games that target niche markets, well...

RampantCoyote said:

And there are maybe a few who are seeing another pillar of the game-publishing industry - financing - starting to shiver. First it was distribution, now financing… they still have marketing, but if I were a bigwig at a major game studio I might be either planning for a shorter horizon on my personal exit strategy if I wanted to leave triumphant, or start figuring out a way to reinvent my company.

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This is an interesting point, and it's broader than the game industry. Creating media products takes time and money, and that time and money must be provided before the resulting product can start generating revenue. This is true of books, television, movies, music, games, you name it. Financing is at the core of the traditional content creation model, because the entity that fronts the money becomes a gatekeeper and owner of the resulting product. Gatekeeper, because they decide which products to fund and which not to fund; owner because they put up the money. Then, as owner, they wind up driving the marketing and distribution.

Kickstarter is undermining the financing role of the publishers, and that in turn undermines the rest. There's no gatekeeper because people who want the proposed product self-select as financial supporters. The responsibility for marketing is likely to split between grassroots efforts from the funders and traditional advertising driven by the actual content creator, because both have an interest in the product succeeding. Distribution is a much easier problem to solve thanks to the digital revolution. (We see something similar in e-books -- it's much easier to get an e-book into an online store than it is to get a self-published paper book into a Barnes & Noble.)

I loves me some disruptive innovation.

Wow. I checked this just last night and it wasn't even close. 1.1 million! Viral... great success story!

If it shakes up things in the mainstream industry in a positive way - that's a cool side-effect, but that's not the main reason I'm excited about this. It's exciting because now there is a viable way for these types of games to be made, with a decent budget, and people can actually work on these as a full-time job. People will be doing what they are passionate about - which makes the end product all the better. Not being dictated from marketing execs what to include in the game.

The indie game scene has always been incredibly diverse and creative compared to mainstream offerings. Now just imagine that indie-level creativity merged with stronger budgets for art / sound / etc and think of all the possibilities that creates.

I agree that an unknown indie would still have the hurdle of being known and trusted. But I think this is surmountable, given time, a good presentation of their design and a decent prototype / demo to show that they can deliver a quality game. Maybe start with a smaller scale project, and build up a reputation from there.

Looks like one of the 10k pledges back out. And the max number of 10k pledges was doubled from 8 to 16. If I had that kind of cash, I would have much rather preferred the gathering of 8 people over the potential gathering of 16 people.

Oh well, doesn't concern me!!