Grimoire - Crowdfunding campaign at indiegogo

[CrazyIrish]

Based on his personality I don't know why he has anything other than enemies. Oh well, you folks vote with your dollars, and I'll vote with mine.

 

[Davaris]

Man. If I made $250,000 on Frayed Knights: The Skull of S'makh-Daon, I'd be ecstatic.

Obviously I'm doing it wrong. Selling games doesn't work. Promising games to get crowdfunding - that's where the action's at…

Trying to sell a game no one wants, doesn't work. Promising a game no one wants, doesn't work either.

The real trick is figuring out what people want, before you do anything.

 

[Raggie]

I must admit Grimoire looks golden. I'll buy it if it ever comes out.

 

[Brother None]

He explained it cost him over 250K over the past 17 years and he wants to recoup his investment.

That's basically it.

Oh? He openly said that? Because that is really not what crowd-funding is for.

At this stage I don't see why anyone would pledge to this. What's the point of fundraising if something is already paid for and finished? If a product is essentially finished, you release it and recoup your investment that way, or open it up for preorders. Selling and crowdfunding are pretty different things, and while there's nothing wrong with using crowdfunding for "kickfinisher" (to finish/polish and release), which several products (like FTL) have already successfully done, that's not what he's doing here in raising this amount.

It's an unrealistic amount for final polish and because of his past behavior I have no reason to believe that putting money up for this actually makes the final release of this title more likely. By structuring it as a "pledge" rather than a "preorder" Cleve cuts me off from my right as a consumer to get my money back when he fails to release the game. Shady as hell.

I might buy it if it's released, sure, but this? There's way too many reasons not to go in for this, really.

 

[Pladio]

Yup, that's what he said in the other thread, but he's edited all he said to "?????" now, because he got pissed off.

 

[Thrasher]

More like covering his tracks of crazy.

 

[Fargol]

It's an unrealistic amount for final polish and because of his past behavior I have no reason to believe that putting money up for this actually makes the final release of this title more likely. By structuring it as a "pledge" rather than a "preorder" Cleve cuts me off from my right as a consumer to get my money back when he fails to release the game. Shady as hell.

This says it all.

I agree this is NOT a pre-order. I've never participated in a pre-order where they say it might not be released and, if not, my money is non-refundable.

 

[Dhruin]

Well put, BN.

 

[Lucky Day]

Let me stick up for Cleve for a bit, just to play devil's advocate.

Has any one of you actually ever worked with someone or had a friend like Cleve? I have. These guys are usually harmless and their simple outspokeness is typically just a way to get a grasp on life and to try and take some control over it. They make up for it in different ways. The one guy I worked with was a piano virtuoso and used to play for Nordstroms.

Another guy who I was friends with was Bipolar and he was fantastic opera singer. Cleve just happens (happened) to make good video games. I think its important to understand his bluster and to have a sense of forgiveness that upstairs doesn't work quite the same way as other people.

At my job they looked the other way as the that guy found conspiracies in everything and fell for every urban legend. Both men I knew were very outspoken about church but both swore like truck drivers. You can just imagine how they are when they don't have an audience around them. My job looked the other way because: a) the guy was harmless and did his job; c) he was kind of a fixture around there - part of the company's personality; c) the guy needed to make a living and who else would hire him (he eventually was let go due to downsizing - no one buys paper manuals anymore)?

The $250k Cleve's asking for (in my mind) is just a reflection of his personality. Same with a mention of a sequel.

—
17 years of non-delivery is a good track record as why not to donate. I might buy the game if it comes out but then I'd have to wait another 17 years for the sequel.

By the way, is that $250 000 Australian dollars? What's that about, $400 US?

--
BroNo - as far as your rights as a consumer are concerned: caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.
—

As of this writing he has $3566. Maybe I need to get something up there. I wonder if Cleve has the power to delete comments - imagine if someone started posting links to his threads over the years.

 

[HiddenX]

By the way, is that $250 000 Australian dollars? What's that about, $400 US?

Indiegogo works with USD.

 

[Shagnak]

By the way, is that $250 000 Australian dollars? What's that about, $400 US?

Actually, the US dollar is pretty weak these days.
The NZ Forex values the Aus dollar at about 4% higher than the US, or more exactly "1 AUD = 1.0382 USD" according to their converter.
http://www.nzforex.co.nz/currency-converter

I imagine it's not too different for forex in other countries.

Anyway, back on topic - I agree wholeheartedly with BN. Or "The Artist Formerly Known as Kharn" as some of us know him.

 

[Lucky Day]

Actually, the US dollar is pretty weak these days.
The NZ Forex values the Aus dollar at about 4% higher than the US, or more exactly "1 AUD = 1.0382 USD" according to their converter.
http://www.nzforex.co.nz/currency-converter

I imagine it's not too different for forex in other countries.

forex = foreign exchange? Ah, I didn't know that it got to par down under. The Greenback has been near 1:1 with Canadian $ for some time and I thought the Looney was actually higher than Ozzie or the Kiwi.

 

[HiddenX]

If someone invests a lot of time in a project, is passionate about it, and finally manage to finish it - I'm not mocking him - I try to support him.

CRPGs are one of my favourite hobbys - the chance to get a polished Wizardry-like game is fantastic. Cleve wants to raise 250.000 USD, but the game will be released no matter what money will be pledged. So what's your problem guys ?

Some old RPGDOT-Veterans have beta-tested an older version of the game, so it's no hoax or vaporware. For years we all wanted a release date, now we have a release date.

I want to play
Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

 

[Thrasher]

It's a question of trust. And a string of previously broken promises...

 

[Pladio]

If someone invests a lot of time in a project, is passionate about it, and finally manage to finish it - I'm not mocking him - I try to support him.

CRPGs are one of my favourite hobbys - the chance to get a polished Wizardry-like game is fantastic. Cleve wants to raise 250.000 USD, but the game will be released no matter what money will be pledged. So what's your problem guys ?

Some old RPGDOT-Veterans have beta-tested an older version of the game, so it's no hoax or vaporware. For years we all wanted a release date, now we have a release date.

I want to play
Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

It's a question of trust. And a string of previously broken promises…

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061160213&postcount=20

 

[Raggie]

I think its important to understand his bluster and to have a sense of forgiveness that upstairs doesn't work quite the same way as other people.

I'm pretty sure he's got something going on. Asperger's or something. It makes it easier for me not to get pissed at all of his shenanigans, but it's not giving me much hope for the actual release of the game. Even if he means it when he says he's going to release the game, I'm not sure if he's able to let go of it. Can he stick to a deadline?

 

[Brother None]

Some old RPGDOT-Veterans have beta-tested an older version of the game, so it's no hoax or vaporware. For years we all wanted a release date, now we have a release date.

It can assume it's not a hoax. Who is to say it's not vaporware? He's never been able to bring himself to finish and release the game. What guarantee or even indication do I have that raising money will get him over the hump?

And this is hardly the first time we've had a release date, so I'm not following you there. Cleve has announced and then missed a bunch of release dates already. Why would this one be any different?

 

[joxer]

At this stage I don't see why anyone would pledge to this. What's the point of fundraising if something is already paid for and finished? If a product is essentially finished, you release it and recoup your investment that way, or open it up for preorders.
...
I might buy it if it's released, sure, but this? There's way too many reasons not to go in for this, really.

I don't need to read anything else. And I'm not giving the money on that one.

 

[DArtagnan]

Now, all we need is Derek Smart asking for crowdfunding for his next revolutionary space game

 

[holeraw]

His missed deadlines don't even matter all that much at this point. His assurance that the game is practically finished and will be out on May no matter what means one thing: there's no reason to give him any money right now.

If the game is released then we can still buy it then without losing much (apparently it is a world changing masterpiece already... so no need to be greedy)

If the game is not released then we don't lose any money.
Honestly, he seems so proud about offering the most complete crowd funded project but all that results to is in a situation where not investing is the most sensible choice - no risk and nothing to lose.

(I suppose the only reason for backing this now is if you want a physical copy with manual, hintbook etc. and, well... I don't)