Buying Steam-keys?

Sorry Kordanor, but I don't think a dime goes to developers of Drakensang when people buy it today. And also I don't believe developers still receive royalties when people buy Fallout 1 and 2.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
Yeah, and if you pirated it, you might have paid 0$ and you would have saved even more money.

For the developers it might not make a big difference (depending on the source in the particular case of course).
Well I can tell you hate key resellers don you? Its perfectly legal because of certain laws in each country. I guess I'm a bad person because I also buy used console games.:roll:
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,538
Location
Spudlandia
@CelticFrost
Because they are NOT in third world countries. The Game Industry is a industry which is not using a lot of outsourcing yet. Check your favorite game developers and check where their studios are. It's probably neither in India, nor Taiwan but in the US or in Europe.

If you say that some evil companies are exploiting poor people in third world countries, you are right.
And you are the exact reason why they do it. Because people want it cheaper.

In the game industry they are not working from third world contries yet. And the players are the "evil" which is exploiting the companies by just paying third world prices.

So it's exactly the other way around. The company is the good guys and the buyers are the exploiters.

@joxer: True. But it's not like these games are dominating the markets. Fallout 1 and 2 were given away for free on gog.
Of course you could now argue against evil publishers. And while some are bad, it's not like all of them are just sitting there, counting money.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
Well I can tell you hate key resellers don you? Its perfectly legal because of certain laws in each country. I guess I'm a bad person because I also buy used console games.:roll:

And I am pretty sure that piracy is also legal in other countries. But thats beside the point.
Besides of that I am actually not sure whether the whole process is actually legal in the US. If you are talking about the purchase you did with the reseller, yes, that it most probably legal. But not the process where they are getting the keys from.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
So you used game buyers, and Key re-seller buyers are pirates good to know.

I'm done with this topic so good day gentlemen.^^

I refer you to Swen at GDC 2015 as he talked about this in more depth.

Link - http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28218

Click the tab where it says Selling in Different Channels.

(Most key re-seller sites are based in Europe)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,538
Location
Spudlandia
Never said anything about "used games". And I also did not say that re-seller buyers are pirates.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
So, in your mind, it's better to simply steal a game than to purchase it from someone that might have stolen it themselves.

Sounds like a great rationalization. :)
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,516
Location
Florida, US
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
And I am pretty sure that piracy is also legal in other countries.
It's not. You can't charge tax if there was no money transfer.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
Yeah, but if there is anarchy in the country and no law which forbids it, then it's not illegal to do it there. ^^
I am not sure if any country is in that "legal state" though. ^^
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
There is absolutely no country that would allow avoiding tax payments. Law or not law, anarchy or order.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
@CelticFrost
Because they are NOT in third world countries. The Game Industry is a industry which is not using a lot of outsourcing yet. Check your favorite game developers and check where their studios are. It's probably neither in India, nor Taiwan but in the US or in Europe.

If you say that some evil companies are exploiting poor people in third world countries, you are right.
And you are the exact reason why they do it. Because people want it cheaper.

In the game industry they are not working from third world contries yet. And the players are the "evil" which is exploiting the companies by just paying third world prices.

So it's exactly the other way around. The company is the good guys and the buyers are the exploiters.

@joxer: True. But it's not like these games are dominating the markets. Fallout 1 and 2 were given away for free on gog.
Of course you could now argue against evil publishers. And while some are bad, it's not like all of them are just sitting there, counting money.

First of all, I did not use gaming companies in my statement. It was a general statement on how companies act. They shouldn't be able have their cake and eat it too for lack of caring to find a better way to word it.

Though I am sure most of their computer parts are made in Third world counties, office supplies, packaging etc. That is if you really want look deep enough.

Second you do not know me at all, so please don't jump to the conclusion that I want cheaper prices. Trust me I don't, not by a long shot. I have only in my 45 years of living bought one thing in a Walmart, it was a Christmas gift for my oldest son years ago. It was the only item he asked for and I could not find it any other place.

I don't know what sort of title you want to give my job. I work with hunderds machine shops to increase productivity to keep jobs in Canada.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,381
@Joxer Not sure about that. E.g. in North Korea owning the products is a legal problem. Importing the product is forbidden. Phsical media must be given away when entering the country. Internet is strictly regulated and hardly anyone has access. Meaning there is no practical market. I am not sure that they have an law against piracy for example.
But anyways. My point was a different one. ^^

@Celtic
Sorry, for the conclusion. It's just that I have read and heard this argument a thousand times already. But the game industry is not globalized in that way.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
Forget North Korea, people there have no money to buy games. Or hardware to run them on.

But we can discuss India. Dragon Age Inquisition is banned in India. How can people in India enjoy the game? I see only one way. Go illegal. They'll either pirate it or use VPN. Who's at loss?
EA? Not really, that's small sum they won't earn there compared to cash earned globally, probaly less than 1%, but then again, they didn't invest into printed game copies ment for India market so the percentage loss drops to near zero.
India government? But of course! As they won't get any taxes from game sells on their soil. Next time you call your country politicians idiots, think twice. Are they idiots, really? :D

I say that censorship is bad for business. It hurts the industry, any industry, more than actual crimes.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
@Celtic
Sorry, for the conclusion. It's just that I have read and heard this argument a thousand times already. But the game industry is not globalized in that way.

All good. I have worked in this field for 25 years and put more hours then I care to think of trying to help companies compete in machining of products from companies from Asia and India.

It has gotten better in the last 2 years since the US has learned that we need to keep jobs over here unless they want everyone to work in a Burger King. It was never as bad in Canada as the States(I use to work down there for 3-4 years part time?).

Even though 95% of the time we are making a superior product, the sheep or masses don't see how buying these products really effect their lives. So increasing productivity and increase tool life in machine is the only way to compete and still product a better product.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,381
For those interested I use this thread to add some updates when I stumble upon them.

I just read a comment from Valve about why they introduced the steam gifting restrictions while the answer is directed to the compendium it should concern gifting in general. And here it is: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/34kx7c/regarding_gifting/

We hate the gift restrictions as much as you do. We thought it'd be helpful to explain to you why they exist so that you can have a better view into the challenges surrounding fraud. Throughout this post we'll talk about gifting compendiums to friends, but this applies in general to all items purchased from the store.
Here's the problem: Bad guys buy compendiums with stolen credit cards, and then resell them to other players at a discount. It can take days to determine that the cards were stolen, and that a fraudulent item had been added to the economy. We can't effectively punish the fraudsters, because they're not really traceable - they commit the fraud on new or stolen accounts, never on their own accounts. In addition, these side markets make it very easy for people to get scammed.
When this started happening in 2013, we decided that the impact fraud was having on players and the economy wasn't big enough compared to the drawbacks of imposing restrictions on everyone. Unfortunately, like all scams that make money, it ballooned rapidly. The moment a method of fraud becomes profitable, it will explode in scope until we can find a way to address it. In 2014, the percentage of compendium purchases that turned out to be fraudulent became very significant and we also saw a massive growth in scam-related support requests from users that didn't receive their items or had their accounts stolen. Additionally, credit card fraud can become a big problem for us because if our fraud rates climb too high, we will no longer be allowed to accept credit card payments at all.
So, we added the time-based trade restriction to allow time to detect and limit the impact that the fraudulent activity has. We believe it actually hurts sales when we put restrictions on our players, because it means it's harder to buy a gift for your friend, for example. We hated doing it, but we didn't have a better solution. We are continuously exploring different methods to solve these problems, because we want to be able to stop fraud without affecting legitimate users.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
It is. And of course it's also a matter of perspective.
There are also countries where corruption is something completely natural. As member of a western country I'd call that bad though. ^^
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
It is. And of course it's also a matter of perspective.
There are also countries where corruption is something completely natural. As member of a western country I'd call that bad though. ^^

Yes, many are eager to label things ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom