DArtagnan is he banned?

[zakhal]

It might be dangerous to ban Dart, I mean could he survive outside this forum? 17000 posts in the last 9 years ~ 1900 posts per year.

 

[DArtagnan]

Assault on my character!!!! Warning!!!!!

 

[GothicGothicness]

It might be dangerous to ban Dart, I mean could he survive outside this forum? 17000 posts in the last 9 years ~ 1900 posts per year.

You should probably count characters of text instead... my guess is DArt types very fast.... but still a lot of his posts contains sooo much text.. which makes it even more impressive to have that much.

 

[Gorath]

Look, I'm not trying to give Gorath a hard time, or make a bigger deal of this than it is. My point is that the problem keeps occurring, and in this case a member got a warning for his postings, when in fact the moderator who was being criticised was being more aggressive.

Maybe this impresses us more if you rephrase it another 5 times.

Sometimes admin action has to be taken to keep things under control. I'm just saying that it would be better to put the constraint on the donation-seeking threads themselves, rather than on the member's responses.

Prohibiting something just because it causes trouble every couple of months is not a decision which should be made easily. We're generally against forbidding things.

 

[DArtagnan]

I think donation threads can be a good thing, and I enjoy helping people when I find it appropriate.

I have no issue with people "begging" for money, either. Just as long as they can take no for an answer - with or without the reasons for it.

I don't think trying to prevent personal remarks in a personal thread is a wise course of action, especially not when it involves taking sides. At least not unless it's extreme or a clear case of counterproductive insults.

But, as far as I'm concerned, the moderators of the Watch are working for the benefit of all here, and they're not getting paid for it.

Just because I personally disagree with the interpretation of this particular incident, I don't think it's my place to fight against what I consider a bad moderator decision.

The decision is made - and all I can hope for is a more nuanced approach to this kind of issue in the future.

 

[Pladio]

I think you're right, that I'm sometimes, or even often, more brutal than necessary.

But you should also consider that it's very, very hard to guage exactly what it takes to get the honest message across to a person on the Internet.

That's why I tend to "overdo" it, because I'd MUCH rather risk being too brutal than not being clear enough.

If I had some way of being certain that I could get my message across without any kind of doubt as to its content - and AVOID hurting people, I'd be doing nothing but that. I'd be a pretty cruel person, otherwise.

I'd much rather hurt someone in an effort to help, than spare feelings and "hope" for the best. The end result is everything - and while I sometimes can't help but hurt myself when enough people end up disliking me for being so brutal in public, it's a price I've chosen to pay - because I prefer trying to contribute over trying to remain popular.

But that's my approach, nothing more.

Sometimes the end result of being too brutal can be worse than the end result of being more polite, as instead of listening to what you have to say people tend to become defensive...

 

[DArtagnan]

Sometimes the end result of being too brutal can be worse than the end result of being more polite, as instead of listening to what you have to say people tend to become defensive…

It depends on what you mean by worse.

People go through a process when they're hurt. Being defensive is a very natural first response, but that doesn't mean they're not hearing the message - quite the opposite. It might take some time, but if you speak the truth - you will come to discover that people listen. That's why they become defensive in the first place. The key is to recognise that the first lashing out is not necessarily the only result.

True change is hard and it takes a lot for people to accept that they have to make it.

 

[Pladio]

It depends on what you mean by worse.

People go through a process when they're hurt. Being defensive is a very natural first response, but that doesn't mean they're not hearing the message - quite the opposite. It might take some time, but if you speak the truth - you will come to discover that people listen. That's why they become defensive in the first place. The key is to recognise that the first lashing out is not necessarily the only result.

True change is hard and it takes a lot for people to accept that they have to make it.

I think that just depends on the person ...
Some people, will as you say listen to what you say, others won't.

But it not necessarily the case.

Some may just be hurt and go into a vicious cycle of doing that thing that is bad even more.

It depends on how you try and help after just saying the truths you espouse.

Telling someone that believing in a pink unicorn is bad may sound helpful and it probably is, if their entire life does not revolve around the pink unicorn. As making the unicorn go away might also mean the community they have lived in their entire lives, which supported them might also disappear.

I understand that the truth is usually the best thing, it certainly is not always the best thing to be brutal about it.

 

[DArtagnan]

I think that just depends on the person …
Some people, will as you say listen to what you say, others won't.

But it not necessarily the case.

Some may just be hurt and go into a vicious cycle of doing that thing that is bad even more.

It depends on how you try and help after just saying the truths you espouse.

Telling someone that believing in a pink unicorn is bad may sound helpful and it probably is, if their entire life does not revolve around the pink unicorn. As making the unicorn go away might also mean the community they have lived in their entire lives, which supported them might also disappear.

I understand that the truth is usually the best thing, it certainly is not always the best thing to be brutal about it.

I'm not saying the best thing is to be brutal.

I'm saying the brutal truth is better than polite untruth - if you're seeking to help. At least, it is in my experience - and that's all I have.

If I believe I can be fully honest without being brutal, then I'll go that way. But when the message is deeply personal, I very rarely find an opportunity to be pleasant about its delivery.

It's rarely about telling people something they don't already know - it's about making the message clear, and what's obvious to others, obvious to the person in question. Painfully so, if necessary. Without pain, change is much less likely if it's about a harmful pattern that's in place of beneficial behavior.

People are amazingly good at dismissing polite "suggestions".

Telling someone that believing in a pink unicorn is bad may sound helpful and it probably is, if their entire life does not revolve around the pink unicorn. As making the unicorn go away might also mean the community they have lived in their entire lives, which supported them might also disappear.

Yes, and I believe that a community based on lies and deceit is not healthy in the long run.

Doesn't mean it can't be extremely painful to sever yourself from it - but I really do believe it's for the best.

I'm very much a "clean cut" kind of person.

 

[Ursusdraconis]

Hey Dart,

if you ever meet my kids, please don't tell them Santa claus (or in my case sinterklaas) does not exist...

Some lies are just to good to spoil

 

[Wisdom]

I'm not saying the best thing is to be brutal.

I'm saying the brutal truth is better than polite untruth - if you're seeking to help. At least, it is in my experience - and that's all I have.

If I believe I can be fully honest without being brutal, then I'll go that way. But when the message is deeply personal, I very rarely find an opportunity to be pleasant about its delivery.

It's rarely about telling people something they don't already know - it's about making the message clear, and what's obvious to others, obvious to the person in question. Painfully so, if necessary. Without pain, change is much less likely if it's about a harmful pattern that's in place of beneficial behavior.

People are amazingly good at dismissing polite "suggestions".

Unfortunately we've raised a generation that is far less interested in truth than they are in feeling good about themselves. Every marketting company caters to "instant gratification". This has seeped into every other aspect of peoples lives, including personal communication.

The company I run has a strict policy. Speak straight responsibly. Whether you are the janitor or the CEO you can approach someone and tell them exactly what you think without repercussions. There is a way to do this properly without personal attacks. Sometimes it hurts to have your perceptions shattered when someone explains how you impacted them. Most people have good intent behind their message. If they didn't, they wouldn't be working for me.

Lots of people don't fit in a straight talking company. Whether they can not get over the fact that the delivery boy called them out over their behavior and they make 5 times his salary, or they are so "sensitive" that they can not handle someone holding them accountable. I put "sensitive" in quotations because there are a LOT of people that use this sensitive card as a crutch. They are not sensitive at all. Rather they are too proud, too stubborn, too indignant, or too pompous to see that the message is good.

There are so many prime examples of this on the internet of ignoring the entire message and getting hung up on delivery or some fractional detail. Every adult can willingly look for the message in the delivery, but a lot choose to be wounded and stay there.

Last month we received a decently worded review on a product that we had shipped for testing. Out of a list of ten major issues the reviewer discussed, one of them was actually present but the reviewer simply missed activating it. Basically it wasn't an issue but the other nine were very valid. One of the contract designers got so hung up about this one hole in the entire review that he was blinded to the other 9. He chose to focus on his self righteousness by pointing out where the reviewer missed the feature that he was useless for the rest of the discussion.

The way people think is fascinating. Occasionally I think what kind of terrible generation have we raised that can't make decisions without a marketing company telling them what they think, or say just the right things to stoke the ego of the oppressed college student. Then I meet fully responsible adults that are accountable for their own actions and willingly want to improve. Suddenly it makes the whole world seem better.

 

[Deleted User]

I'm not banned, no

I just had a few days off, and I wanted to spend them on something other than the Watch. Believe it or not, I really don't enjoy bickering with people. I just feel compelled to speak my mind too often - even when it goes against my better judgment. Silly, I know, but I'm flawed.

I'm genuinely surprised that someone noticed I was gone - and even a bit touched

As for the discussion related to the Fluent thread in question, I noticed I'd received a warning - but I don't really pay attention to such things.

I'm 100% ok with it if my comments result in a ban, because this isn't my site - and moderators have to do what they think is right. I understand that.

I always try to act as I think is fair and appropriate, and I apologize if and when I see myself getting out of line. I've done that several times before, and I don't mind doing it a million times more - if the occasions rise.

I think it's fair to say that I'm not "polite" or "pleasant" compared to the average online persona around here - but that's because I think being polite or pleasant when it gets in the way of clear speaking is a sickness that destroys communication. I know I won't get a lot of people to agree with me on that, but I really do believe in that approach.

So, in this case, I don't intend to apologize or regulate my behavior.

I simply didn't agree with Gorath that this was about assaulting Fluent's character. I believe I've made it clear several times that I actually like Fluent, I just don't think he's leading a healthy life. That's personal, sure, but the thread was highly personal and he's deliberately involved the Watch in his personal life many times before. You can't expect people to stay non-personal in their advice when it's such a personal situation. I don't think that's fair or reasonable.

In my world, creating a personal thread doesn't mean you get to call the shots when it comes to the responses. If you get critical responses involving reference to personal details that you've deliberately revealed, then that's to be expected.

Fluent calls us all nothing but trolls and thinks we're Codexian negative people, because we questioned his approach to getting bills paid.

I won't even go into what he called me.

So, he's really the one making personal attacks - and he's done so before.

Personally, I couldn't care less about personal attacks or name-calling, it's just not productive.

Do note that this isn't a "discussion" about moderator policies. I honestly don't care. I'm here on the Watch because I like the general atmosphere - and I like most of the people here.

Again, it's not my site - and I have no business trying to change this kind of favoritism. We're all human - and I've rubbed a lot of people the wrong way over the years. I'm kinda shocked I'm not banned already, really

This is just me making my position clear, given there's an actual thread about it.

LOL @ not leading a healthy life. Thank you Dr. DArt for your clueless opinion, but I live a perfectly healthy life. I am truly blessed every day with how I get to live, whether that means not having money to do anything or not. Life is good for me.

Not that it matters one way or the other, but I don't think all of you are negative Codex trolls. Just people like you, DArt, and others that I have already added to my ignore list.

Here would be normal responses to a thread about a sick dog.

"Oh, I'm sorry to hear about that, I'd help if I can but I'm strapped at the moment.".

"Aww, poor fella. I hope he gets better! I'll send a few dollars if I can."

"I hope your dog gets better. It's sad to see an animal struggle with health".

Etc. etc.

Not the crap some of you seem to think is appropriate. It's negative, troll-ish behavior, and I will call you on that. I can't say I like you much DArt, because you seem to like troll people with negativity. Much like GothicGothicness as well. I find no value in your posts and personal attacks on me.

Do you have value in other aspects of the site? Sure. When you're talking about the games you like, RPG elements, all that is fine. But the arguments you get into and the way you negatively affect people is concerning to me. That's also a reason why I'm considering just blocking you as well so I don't have to read any more of your posts.

There is nothing wrong for asking for help when it's needed. If the site were to ban asking for money for Gofundme projects, that would be a sad day. It's sad to me that a thread about a sick dog and a mother who can barely afford his medicine is reacted to so negatively by some of you. But now I see all of your true colors. Again, those true colors will either drive me from the site completely or have half of the site's members on my ignore list.

 

[txa1265]

And at the same time I know many people who cloak themselves in 'being a straight shooter' or whatever bad analogy you want ... when they really are just using so-called 'straight talk policies' as a way to bully and belittle. Either way - masking honesty to protect others, or seeing making people upset as a positive outcome - are flawed at best. Honest exchanges are often messy things ... but that doesn't mean a messy exchange is necessarily honest ...

 

[DArtagnan]

LOL @ not leading a healthy life. Thank you Dr. DArt for your clueless opinion, but I live a perfectly healthy life. I am truly blessed every day with how I get to live, whether that means not having money to do anything or not. Life is good for me.

Not that it matters one way or the other, but I don't think all of you are negative Codex trolls. Just people like you, DArt, and others that I have already added to my ignore list.

Here would be normal responses to a thread about a sick dog.

"Oh, I'm sorry to hear about that, I'd help if I can but I'm strapped at the moment.".

"Aww, poor fella. I hope he gets better! I'll send a few dollars if I can."

"I hope your dog gets better. It's sad to see an animal struggle with health".

Etc. etc.

Not the crap some of you seem to think is appropriate. It's negative, troll-ish behavior, and I will call you on that. I can't say I like you much DArt, because you seem to like troll people with negativity. Much like GothicGothicness as well. I find no value in your posts and personal attacks on me.

Do you have value in other aspects of the site? Sure. When you're talking about the games you like, RPG elements, all that is fine. But the arguments you get into and the way you negatively affect people is concerning to me. That's also a reason why I'm considering just blocking you as well so I don't have to read any more of your posts.

There is nothing wrong for asking for help when it's needed. If the site were to ban asking for money for Gofundme projects, that would be a sad day. It's sad to me that a thread about a sick dog and a mother who can barely afford his medicine is reacted to so negatively by some of you. But now I see all of your true colors. Again, those true colors will either drive me from the site completely or have half of the site's members on my ignore list.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you for a second regarding your position on your own life. I think you're struggling to maintain an image of happiness - both to others and to yourself.

If I'm wrong, I'm very happy about that.

As for your negative opinion about me, that's duly noted.

I still think you're a nice guy, though I guess my opinion on the subject is of limited value - given what you think about me as a person

 

[Deleted User]

You're a funny guy, DArt. My position on my own life is wonderful! Whether you believe that or not (why wouldn't you?), is really no concern to me.

If you haven't noticed, I post positive things around here, not negative. I'm not a negative person (although it's a struggle sometimes, such is life). I remain positive about life and my outlook on it.

I'm glad that you think I'm a nice guy. I am a nice guy. I don't hate you, DArt, but you seem to ride in on your high horse and look down on people. There have been plenty of arguments I've avoided with you because I know how they will end.

But whatever man, none of this really means much. I was a bit heated after reading your post which is why I said I don't like you much. You're cool, DArt, in your own, crazy, twisted way. So I take that back. I just have to take it upon myself not to get involved in your arguments and ignore some of your posts towards me.

Ah well. Such is life, I guess.

 

[DArtagnan]

And at the same time I know many people who cloak themselves in 'being a straight shooter' or whatever bad analogy you want … when they really are just using so-called 'straight talk policies' as a way to bully and belittle. Either way - masking honesty to protect others, or seeing making people upset as a positive outcome - are flawed at best. Honest exchanges are often messy things … but that doesn't mean a messy exchange is necessarily honest …

The part about people being upset is not the positive outcome, it's the part that follows being upset that's positive.

 

[DArtagnan]

You're a funny guy, DArt. My position on my own life is wonderful! Whether you believe that or not (why wouldn't you?), is really no concern to me.

If you haven't noticed, I post positive things around here, not negative. I'm not a negative person (although it's a struggle sometimes, such is life). I remain positive about life and my outlook on it.

I'm glad that you think I'm a nice guy. I am a nice guy. I don't hate you, DArt, but you seem to ride in on your high horse and look down on people. There have been plenty of arguments I've avoided with you because I know how they will end.

But whatever man, none of this really means much. I was a bit heated after reading your post which is why I said I don't like you much. You're cool, DArt, in your own, crazy, twisted way. So I take that back. I just have to take it upon myself not to get involved in your arguments and ignore some of your posts towards me.

Ah well. Such is life, I guess.

I don't look down on people - as that would be impossible for someone such as myself.

No, you're not a negative person. I don't believe I've said otherwise.

One of the things I like about you is that you're always so positive in your posts. That doesn't mean I think it's a healthy or beneficial position in all cases - but it's pleasant

I'm glad you don't hate me, though it would be ok if you did. I don't carry grudges based on Internet exchanges. We don't really know each other - we just know what's been said online. I'm assuming everything you've said is true, and that's what's prompted my comments.

 

[GothicGothicness]

You're a funny guy, DArt. My position on my own life is wonderful! Whether you believe that or not (why wouldn't you?), is really no concern to me.

If you haven't noticed, I post positive things around here, not negative. I'm not a negative person (although it's a struggle sometimes, such is life). I remain positive about life and my outlook on it.

I'm glad that you think I'm a nice guy. I am a nice guy. I don't hate you, DArt, but you seem to ride in on your high horse and look down on people. There have been plenty of arguments I've avoided with you because I know how they will end.

But whatever man, none of this really means much. I was a bit heated after reading your post which is why I said I don't like you much. You're cool, DArt, in your own, crazy, twisted way. So I take that back. I just have to take it upon myself not to get involved in your arguments and ignore some of your posts towards me.

Ah well. Such is life, I guess.

Well, you might already have put me on ignore, but I think DArt had a perfectly good point, to be frank I think it is ridicules to beg for hard-drives, money, complain about the poor situation of your moms dog and so on, and say you don't have enough time to work.

You obviously have a lot of time, considering how much you are gaming and recording games, if "Dino" was truly really important to you, you could just sell your top of the line screen, alien-ware laptop and gaming PC, to pay for the medical bills.

There are so many truly poor people who could never afford that sort of hardware even if they work 10 hours a day.

Then you call me and DArt trolls just because we tell you the truth of the matter, but in your little own "pretended" happy world you cannot bear to hear it like it is and instead accuse of us being horrible Codex trolls, I think very few other people on the site looks on us like that, and as this thread proves people immediately was asking where DArt went once he was gone for a short while.

 

[Wisdom]

Here would be normal responses to a thread about a sick dog.

Normal is relative. I believe the responses you got actually represented a full spectrum of responses, just not all the ones you wanted. One can not access the internet daily without realizing that not everyone agrees with you.

I have questions.

The following are quotes from you or jackie.
"At age 3 he began taking seizures. long violent ones. we began to see a pattern of cluster seizures every 6 to 8 weeks. they last 3 days, 24 hours a day, totalling 10 to 15 seizures. "

"5 seizures, one after the other plus a total of 15 seizures over the course of 4 days. he has no function in his back legs"

"Dino has cluster seizures every 4 to 6 weeks or so, and they are violent and nasty. Afterwards he is left "spaced out" for a few days, endlessly walking around, whining, and not knowing where he is or what he's doing."

"Afterwards he was a complete mess and literally didn't move for over 24 hours. "

"we have him on a regimen of various prescription medication. Unfortunately, the medication only does so much, and every 6-8 weeks or so, he has several days of seizures that we just have had to deal with thus far."

"There are times where he literally whines, barks and cries for 24 hours straight, sometimes more, "

"No, there is no real hope that Dino is just going to "get better". I mean, a miracle could happen, yes, but it seems like he will have seizures for the rest of his life, and that means we simply have to do whatever we can to make his life as comfortable and nice as we possibly can."

All your words. To summarize. You have a dog that has been seizing for 3 days every 4-6 weeks for over 2 years leaving him incapacitated for over 24 hours every episode with 3 days of recovery time where the dog is hurt and confused. This is currently WITH the medication. So if someone miraculously handed you the requested $3000 it would serve to do nothing except prolong this pattern.

The quality of life for this animal is poor at best. WITH the medication, this terrible situation you described is occurring. At what stage would quality of life be better if the dog was put to sleep?

 

[Deleted User]

Sorry Gothic, but your response is based on not enough information.

You think I should sell items that were GIFTED to me to pay the medical bills? Sure, I will if it comes to that. Guess what? I sold nearly every possession I owned a few years back to help pay rent to keep my parents house going. Every single thing I owned went for sale, including computers, vintage synthesizers, music equipment and even my main music device I was using to compose at the time. All gone. Why? To help my parents. If it comes to that again, I will do it, sure. But you act as if I had the money to buy the few nice things I do have. News flash - I have NO MONEY. These items were GIFTS. Sure, I could sell my birthday gift to pay for bills and if I have to I will. But my mother also specifically told me NOT to do that. She doesn't want to see me have to sell every possession I own again to pay for the bills. We're hoping to get the money in other ways, through the generosity of people who can afford it and want to help. By the way, my mother also barely has anything worth money. We're down to pawning her wedding ring if you really must know, just to afford getting Dino taken care of. My mother would sell her house to pay for that dog if she had to. We're just hoping others will help so we don't have to do that.

So yeah, you're completely trolling me with negativity. And honestly GG, I've noticed that's your style in other posts of yours. You seem to have a volatile attitude at times. I'm sure others would agree but don't want to say anything. Those are the types of troll-ish, Codexian attitudes I like to avoid. And I haven't placed you on ignore yet, but if you continue to blab about things you have no idea about and react negatively to me, you will be there in a flash, trust me.

Oh, and P.S. - I'm disabled and can't work right now. I know that's personal and I'm putting it out there, but I don't care. I'm tired of the ridiculous backlash of "oh, just go get a job ya lazy bum!". I had one job in my life and it ended in a fiery mess after one year. I have many problems that make it difficult for me to work, and I focus on my YouTube and online things because they genuinely interest me and I'm somewhat capable to do them. I hope to one day make a living off my YouTube account, perhaps get into developing games or something. But it's very hard for me. You have no idea, but now you can simply shut up about this, along with a few others who insist that I just need to go away and get a job or something. You don't know me and what I struggle with, so stop acting like you do. Have some freaking decency and be polite, for fucks sake.