Cyberpunk 2077 - Inherently Political

[Silver]

PC Gamer reports that Cyberpunk 2077 will be staying true to the settings themes.

"Cyberpunk 2077 is a game about people with power at the top and people at the bottom with none", he replied. "That power can come from money, hierarchies, technology and violence. The original Cyberpunk 2020 setting, like the setting of The Witcher stories, was a complex critique of the author's world, and we don't shy away from that in our games. On the contrary I think it's one of the things that sets us apart [...] Cyberpunk is an inherently political genre and it's an inherently political franchise."

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[Winterfart]

I can't wait to have CDProjekt accused of being cyber-antifa Soros shills by one side, and racist ethnocentrists by the other side. It's gonna be bloody glorious (or not).

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Well, Witcher 3 had some not-so-subtle things to say about politics, so I would expect nothing else for CP2077.

Personally, I prefer stories centered around human drama and psychology - so I hope politics won't be the primary drive for the narrative.

Also, I have to say I particularly enjoy sci-fi horror - so I hope there are bits of "alien research" or "abandoned labs" here and there

But the fact that it's first person is great news to me. For me to get fully immersed in a game, I really need to look through the eyes of my character - and I'm very happy to hear they went this route for CP2077.

 

[Winterfart]

Well, Witcher 3 had some not-so-subtle things to say about politics, so I would expect nothing else for CP2077.

Can you give me exemple? I promess to keep this discussion clean.

Also, I have to say I particularly enjoy sci-fi horror - so I hope there are bits of "alien research" or "abandoned labs" here and there

I hope not. Of the two franchise, Shadowrun is the fantasy/horror one. Cyberpunk is more centered around politics, police, criminality and social unrests ( and of course cybernetic).

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Can you give me exemple? I promess to keep this discussion clean.

Well, Geralt makes several statements throughout the Witcher series about his opinion and general disdain for Kings and their petty schemes - which is often based on trivial human weaknesses and greed.

I don't remember much in the way of specifics, because I'm not a big fan of that kind of politically charged writing (I mean, it's cool and all - but I'm not that engaged with it). But I seem to recall that the beginning of Witcher 2 is more or less based entirely around a stupid conflict between those in power, and Geralt makes no secret of his position here

Also, he clearly despises the powerplay related to the Sorcerer's Lodge - and I don't think there's much doubt about CDPR being rather left-wing in their views when it comes to the treatment of supposed "inferior" species.

I'm very left-wing myself, so I can only sympathise with CDPR here - but I think it's clear that they had things to say about politics and political leaders in their games.

Which is fine.

 

[Winterfart]

Oh okay, We have the same point of view. I don't think they did it with a lack of subtility, they just did it accordingly to the books ( where Geralt is a total leftist for sure ).

But this is Indiana Jones "I hate Nazis" level of politically engaged fiction. It's more about giving flesh to a character rather than making a statement.
If it's too much for some ( not you, Tagnan), Cyberpunk is gonna give seizures to many. They won't talk about Crazy Kings and Elven rebels this time...

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I hope not. Of the two franchise, Shadowrun is the fantasy/horror one. Cyberpunk is more centered around politics, police, criminality and social unrests ( and of course cybernetic).

I think you're talking about Shadowrun having magic in it, right?

Cyberpunk is just a setting and a ruleset - and there's nothing inherently non-horror about it. That would be entirely up to the imagination and inclination of CDPR.

But we all like different things, and if sci-fi horror isn't for you - then that's cool.

 

[daveyd]

Hmm, I guess I don't necessarily interpret that kind of general critique of people in power as being inherently left-wing, though. People on the right tend to hold disdain for the powerful, too… The disagreement just comes in who the powerful elites are. I.e., Us lefties point to greedy corporations & their obscenely wealthy CEOs whereas the right focuses on "the liberal media", Hollywood, (and of course Soros as if he's the only billionaire who meddles in politics). There's even occasionally overlap (at least as far as us peaceniks & paleo-cons are both critical of the "military industrial complex"). So it's just a question of who you want to see the Sorcerer's Lodge as an allegory for.

Of course I'm speaking about the US, don't know much about politics of other countries; though I gather in many other Western countries your conservatives would probably be considered "centrists" here, as actual lefties are a rare breed in American politics (though thankfully that seems to be changing as of late).

Anyway, Dart, I suppose you're referring mainly to the racial conflict, which I can agree CDPR has a left-leaning viewpoint on. Oddly enough though, I don't really recall seeing anyone complaining about it (i.e., no one called complaining about an "SJW" agenda in The Witcher series). Though I'm sure those people are out there, perhaps there weren't so many because each games you a choose as to which factions to side with… You can be against the nonhumans in the first game, or neutral, you can side with Rosche or Iorveth in W2….. I found it hard not to sympathize with the non-humans, but if you do go the other route, to my the best of recollection the games don't really judge you for it, really.

 

[Winterfart]

Arg! Double post.

 

[Winterfart]

I think you're talking about Shadowrun having magic in it, right?

Cyberpunk is just a setting and a ruleset - and there's nothing inherently non-horror about it. That would be entirely up to the imagination and inclination of CDPR.

I played a lot of both table top games. Shadowrun campaigns always had some genetically modified insect monsters infesting a secret base or some demon possessing a robot and other cool horror stuff like that. I never see that kind of thing in a Cyberpunk campaign. It's a more rational setting…

As you said, it's not impossible, but it would be weird. Like having a ghost story in The Wire or some vampires in Starsky and Hutch ( oh, wait… )

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I played a lot of both table top games. Shadowrun campaigns always had some genetically modified insect monsters infesting a secret base or some demon possessing a robot and other cool horror stuff like that. I never see that kind of thing in a Cyberpunk campaign. It's a more rational setting…

As you said, it's not impossible, but it would be weird. Like having a ghost story in The Wire or some vampires in Starsky and Hutch ( oh, wait… )

Well, in my opinion, aliens aren't necessarily supernatural

But it was just the first thing that came to mind. I'd be fine with "genetic experiments" or whatever. It's trivial from a story point of view to come up with a reasonably plausible underpinning for some nice horror elements.

But that's because I adore sci-fi horror.

Of course, CDPR should decide what they want to do - and I'm sure they're pretty determined to do exactly that

Certainly, the game sounds very good indeed - so I'll more than likely be playing it regardless of the story context.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Hmm, I guess I don't necessarily interpret that kind of general critique of people in power as being inherently left-wing, though. People on the right tend to hold disdain for the powerful, too… The disagreement just comes in who the powerful elites are. I.e., Us lefties point to greedy corporations & their obscenely wealthy CEOs whereas the right focuses on "the liberal media", Hollywood, (and of course Soros as if he's the only billionaire who meddles in politics). There's even occasionally overlap (at least as far as us peaceniks & paleo-cons are both critical of the "military industrial complex"). So it's just a question of who you want to see the Sorcerer's Lodge as an allegory for.

Of course I'm speaking about the US, don't know much about politics of other countries; though I gather in many other Western countries your conservatives would probably be considering centrists here, as actual lefties are a rare breed in American politics (though that seems to be changing as of late).

Anyway, Dart, I suppose you're referring mainly to the racial conflict, which I can agree CDPR has a left-leaning viewpoint on. Oddly enough though, I don't really recall seeing anyone complaining about it (i.e., no one called complaining about an "SJW" agenda in The Witcher series). Though I'm sure those people are out there, perhaps there weren't so many because each games you a choose as to which factions to side with… You can be against the nonhumans in the first game, or neutral, you can side with Rosche or Iorveth in W2….. I found it hard not to sympathize with the non-humans, but if you do go the other route, to my the best of recollection the games don't really judge you for it, really.

Well, I'm primarily referring to my perception of the Geralt character and persona. It seems to me he's the "voice" of CDPR - and the one you're supposed to identify with.

Of course, there's some leeway there - but I certainly consider his views mostly left-wing.

I can say that with reasonable confidence, as I'm almost always in agreement with him - and I'm about as left-wing as they come

Of course, I'm not a fan of political black and white labels like "left-wing" or "right-wing" - but there's no denying which would be the more appropriate for myself, if I had to pick just one.

As for complaints, I have to say I think Witcher 3 has become sort of the holy grail of the gaming community.

People don't really dare to complain - because they know they'll be attacked by rabid fans very shortly after pointing out flaws.

Personally, I think all games have flaws - even my most beloved favorite games - so I think it's trivial to talk about.

But I know some people get really riled up because they're "loyal" to a game - and that's ok. I don't blame them for being human in that way.

But I'm not really complaining about these political messages. I think it's fine - it's just not really what motivates me to engage with the narrative.

For instance, I found the middle part of Witcher 3 (the Novigrad/Skellige stuff) incredibly dull for the most part - because much of it was about the powerplay of the city and the Eternal Fire/Skellige Clans stuff.

To me, the personal drama of the Bloody Baron and Ciri/Geralt interactions etc. were much, much more engaging and touching.

But that's because I'm very interested in human behavior and psychology. Politics tend to be somewhat impersonal - and I'm just really not into that kind of narrative. I also don't watch political shows like West Wing or House of Cards. I find them so incredibly narrow and predictable - because I know exactly what people in power are about and how they will behave to achieve more power.

Same goes for certain Bioware games, by the way. I really didn't care for the politics in Dragon Age - for instance.

 

[you]

Most kings are petty but having said that I hope cyberpunk has a very rich political statement and is broad enough that the player can make their own choices.

 

[ChatMiauleur]

If there is no political message on a game about a City where crime is a given, Private Insurance companies have an official right to kill on sight, people can be harvested of their natural or artificial organs in a back alley and corruption is the flavor of the day they did not understand the game and the context.

 

[Carnifex]

I'm hoping that they focus more on good content with an excellent story rather than any political plots.

 

[azarhal]

I'm pretty sure they means social class warfare politics which is a huge theme in the setting (rich vs poor, street gangs vs corporate, etc).

 

[ChatMiauleur]

Well in the guess game it could also be political because of being used for the agenda of someone or some group against someone else to gain politic leverage.
To go on with the example of TW3 that is what happens in Novigrad were the Witcher is trying to remain neutral while everyone around is vying to involve him to get some kind of ace in their hand.
It is a trope in Cyberpunk where reputation for Corporations or gangs is vital

 

[joxer]

TW3 is full of all kinds of racism. Witchers are generally hated, nonhumans are hated by humans and sometimes vice versa, "monsters" regardless of their actual character/agenda, are victims of everyone just because they're considered monsters.
Then there is a king who decided sorcery needs to be banned and is disposing of sterile sorceresses because… I guess in his mind there is a phobia they'll give birth to more magic users.
Etc etc.

I'm hoping CP2077 will have all sorts of stuff like that.

 

[rjshae]

They should throw in a "Make Anarchy Great Again" cap...

 

[JFarrell71]

There is no cyberpunk without political themes.