The art of cheating

[bjon045]

but 20 or 30 years ago it was a very obscure novelty. To which story mode and even cheating to make it story mode was practically non-existent.

But that is just it, it wasn't. I already gave the example of the gold box games (and related like Dark Sun) where you could max your stats and HP and set the difficulty to novice and make the game so easy you can auto resolve every battle. In Wiz 6/7 you could set the difficulty to novice which halves the number of enemies you fight - you can also do some special key strokes during character generation to give yourself bonus points. A character editor for both of these games was made in the 90's. Then there was games like QfG were the combat is so easy you don't really have to think (just hold the attack button and grind up your skill).

I have already said that even those games were about a lot more than just story. It's about building a character and equpping them (maybe even imagining them as yourself?). Exploring and mapping areas/dungeons etc etc. I am pretty sure Couch plays for all these things not just story but story is just the main reason. If it was just the story then he would probably just watch movies/read books like you say. I think on the internet it is best to take things people say with a fairly broad brush as not everybody wants to write a paragraph or spend the time to exactly specify what they mean.

Hell, he probably even likes combat, he just wants it to be so easy he feels like a super hero!!!

I may not agree with how he thinks but I can at least understand why he thinks that way. And I think you can too?

 

[Couchpotato]

But that is just it, it wasn't. I already gave the example of the gold box games (and related like Dark Sun) where you could max your stats and HP and set the difficulty to novice and make the game so easy you can auto resolve every battle. In Wiz 6/7 you could set the difficulty to novice which halves the number of enemies you fight - you can also do some special key strokes during character generation to give yourself bonus points. A character editor for both of these games was made in the 90's. Then there was games like QfG were the combat is so easy you don't really have to think (just hold the attack button and grind up your skill).

I have already said that even those games were about a lot more than just story. It's about building a character and equpping them (maybe even imagining them as yourself?). Exploring and mapping areas/dungeons etc etc. I am pretty sure Couch plays for all these things not just story but story is just the main reason. If it was just the story then he would probably just watch movies/read books like you say. I think on the internet it is best to take things people say with a fairly broad brush as not everybody wants to write a paragraph or spend the time to exactly specify what they mean.

Hell, he probably even likes combat, he just wants it to be so easy he feels like a super hero!!!

I may not agree with how he thinks but I can at least understand why he thinks that way. And I think you can too?

Exactly someone understands. Sure I could write a twenty paragraph reply post on why I play this way but wont. It's not worth my time, and always leads to nowhere online.

To my chagrin that's probably why I never get a long with certain posters.

 

[lackblogger]

But that is just it, it wasn't. I already gave the example of the gold box games (and related like Dark Sun) where you could max your stats and HP and set the difficulty to novice and make the game so easy you can auto resolve every battle. In Wiz 6/7 you could set the difficulty to novice which halves the number of enemies you fight - you can also do some special key strokes during character generation to give yourself bonus points. A character editor for both of these games was made in the 90's. Then there was games like QfG were the combat is so easy you don't really have to think (just hold the attack button and grind up your skill).

I have already said that even those games were about a lot more than just story. It's about building a character and equpping them (maybe even imagining them as yourself?). Exploring and mapping areas/dungeons etc etc. I am pretty sure Couch plays for all these things not just story but story is just the main reason. If it was just the story then he would probably just watch movies/read books like you say. I think on the internet it is best to take things people say with a fairly broad brush as not everybody wants to write a paragraph or spend the time to exactly specify what they mean.

Hell, he probably even likes combat, he just wants it to be so easy he feels like a super hero!!!

I may not agree with how he thinks but I can at least understand why he thinks that way. And I think you can too?

I think someone who spends so much time posting and spamming has plenty of time to write one paragraph without killing themselves from exhaustion.

But it's cool that the person in question doesn't need to 'care about' writing anything when everyone else will reply for them. I have no idea what their interest is beyond what they themselves state, hence why I asked them.

You'd think they'd find enjoyment in expressing what they do and don't like, like most other people would, such as purpleblob just did.

But, alas, merely asking the question is apparently crisis inducing?

 

[lackblogger]

Exactly someone understands. Sure I could write a twenty paragraph reply post on why I play this way but wont. It's not worth my time, and always leads to nowhere online.

To my chagrin that's probably why I never get a long with certain posters.

Finally you reply!

Not worth your time?

Joined Oct 1, 2010
Messages34,967

That's an average of over 7 posts every single day for 13 years.

Yeah, I mean, one more paragraph makes all the difference doesn't it. Would really tip you over the edge.

 

[Qayto]

A lot of what people are describing as "cheating" I would call accessibility. Adapting a game to individual playstyles. I don't use mods but have used console commands in survival games. In a single player game it affects no one.

I do admire people who can stealth their way around games or play on unforgiving difficulties. There's still lots of common ground and shared interest.

Mr Qayto isn't that fussed over BG3 story but he gets totally absorbed by the combat and will redo fights to try it out in a different way.

In multiplayer and competetive games though, it's a disgrace, ruins the game for the non-cheaters. In World of warcraft, a few years ago, there was a sudden banning of a load of pvpers who had been cheating. Non-cheater players ratings were revised and some people got a belated achievement, it left a sour taste, wonder how many players gave up.

 

[pibbuR]

... a relentless spammer of news about every single RPG out there.

Spammer? I think his rpg news posts are interesting and useful. And to his credit he posts about all kinds of rpg's not only games he wants to play himself. Which is a good thing.

As for why he likes rpg's but not very much the combat aspects - if he decides to answer, fine. If he doesn't (he doesn't have to), that's also fine.

pibbuR

 

[lackblogger]

Spammer? I think his rpg news posts are interesting and useful. And to his credit he posts about all kinds of rpg's not only games he wants to play himself. Which is a good thing.

As for why he likes rpg's but not very much the combat aspects - if he decides to answer, fine. If he doesn't (he doesn't have to), that's also fine.

pibbuR

Ah yes, choice of words to describe someone who posts a huge amount of advertising material. I have no doubt there are better words to use. Ones that wouldn't be so useful as a derailing tool.

I have no doubt that many enjoy his posts, I have never said or implied otherwise.

I've no doubt it matters not to anyone whether he likes what he posts about and for some it would indeed be a good thing. You'd think there'd be a motivation there though, wouldn't you? A motivation that is quite easy to explain, dare I say enjoyable to explain.

But, of course, no-one needs to answer anything, we can all treat questions as invasions of people's personal spaces and have hissy fits every time someone asks why XYZ does what they do and all proudly exclaim they do it because and that's that, ok!

Which is, obviously, fine.

Are you happy now? Or you still want to stir some more?

 

[pibbuR]

Your response seems quite aggressive to me. I won't take part in that.

 

[Redglyph]

Some posters are unfortunately like that, even though trolling is normally frowned upon. The best option is adding them to the ignore list.

 

[lackblogger]

Your response seems quite aggressive to me. I won't take part in that.

So aggressive posting is ok as long as it's you who's doing it? Fascinating.

And, no, I thought my post was not in the least aggressive, as far as I can tell I agreed with almost every one of your points. Again, fascinating.

It's almost like you're trying to invent excuses for drama!

Surely not...

 

[pibbuR]

In what way was my post aggressive?

 

[lackblogger]

In what way was my post aggressive?

In reply to the use of the word spammer you state you find his spam posts interesting and useful.

Right off the bat, no-one has implied that they are not. You've invented an insinuation about another poster's post. Attempted to put words into their mouth that they never spoke.

You then state that what he does is a good thing. Again, no-one has said they aren't. You are trying to insinuate that I'm criticising his news thread, when I am not.

So, so far, you have quoted me but said nothing to me about what I've said, and yet you are replying in a contrarian manner.

As I said, what's the issue? As in why are you replying to me in this way?

You then say it's fine whether he answers or not. To which I never said it wasn't. I don't believe it's a banable offence to not answer people's questions. Again, you're replying to me in an insinuatory manner that implies I or anyone has a particular issue with him not replying.

I iterate this to you in my reply, that your post seems to be something I am in general agreement with, so I asked are you just stirring the pot or did you have something relevant to say to me that relates to what I have said.

You then claim it's me who's being aggressive.

To which I can only repeat, if I had a better word than spammer I'd use it. You just don't like the word spammer in relation to couchpotato? Is that it?

 

[JFarrell71]

That he's talking like this to PibbuR of all people, as close to a universally liked poster as we have, should tell anyone on the fence which side to hop to.

A critical component of discussion, even antagonistic online discussion, is the ability of the participants to recognize when their individual points have missed the mark, in content or in target, and to be able to adjust and capitulate by degrees. When arguments are sufficiently fluid on both sides, agreement can be reached; perhaps not about the entire topic, but on individual points of contention within it. When a participant utterly lacks the ability to acknowledge even egregious missteps an entire community can poke holes in, when they constantly reshift the argument on a whim to continue their assault, when they refuse to agree with blatantly true statements, you don't have a discussion. You have the human equivalent of a brick wall.

 

[pibbuR]

I thought "spammer" means someone who posts useless and trollish posts, so I thought that was what you meant, and I disagreed with that. I honestly was in no way trying to put words into your mouth.

As for the not answering part, from what you've written I thought you had an issue with that, which I found to be unjustified. Seems like it came across different from what I intended.

So I've misunderstood at least some of what you wrote, for which I'm sorry. English is not my natural language, and I guess I'm not updated on the fines details of "internetese"

Anyhow, I suggest we two stop our exchange here, in order to not derail the thread further.

 

[lackblogger]

That he's talking like this to PibbuR of all people, as close to a universally liked poster as we have, should tell anyone on the fence which side to hop to.

A critical component of discussion, even antagonistic online discussion, is the ability of the participants to recognize when their individual points have missed the mark, in content or in target, and to be able to adjust and capitulate by degrees. When arguments are sufficiently fluid on both sides, agreement can be reached; perhaps not about the entire topic, but on individual points of contention within it. When a participant utterly lacks the ability to acknowledge even egregious missteps an entire community can poke holes in, when they constantly reshift the argument on a whim to continue their assault, when they refuse to agree with blatantly true statements, you don't have a discussion. You have the human equivalent of a brick wall.

You have not posted a single constructive or non-antagonistic sentence in this entire attempt to generate flag waving drama from nothing. The irony of this post is beyond palpable, especially as it contains zero reference and is 100% hyperbole.

 

[bkrueger]

I expected that a thread about cheating might end up in a flame war, but this thread is kind of a new world record by completely leaving the topic of cheating in addition to the flame war. Great achievement and very funny, if you are not involved.

 

[JFarrell71]

You have not posted a single constructive or non-antagonistic sentence in this entire attempt to generate flag waving drama from nothing. The irony of this post is beyond palpable, especially as it contains zero reference and is 100% hyperbole.

And nothing you've posted on this thread has anything to do with the thread topic, unlike me and everyone else who has posted here. If you have an opinion on cheating in games, let's hear it. Let's hear no more demands for people posting here to explain themselves to your satisfaction.

 

[Arkadia7]

I don't know what happened to this thread, but I liked it early on! Now, not so much. lol

 

[lackblogger]

And nothing you've posted on this thread has anything to do with the thread topic, unlike me and everyone else who has posted here. If you have an opinion on cheating in games, let's hear it. Let's hear no more demands for people posting here to explain themselves to your satisfaction.

Reducing an RPG's content to story mode and endeavoring to find hacks and mods to achieve that if they don't exist very much is the topic that I initially addressed.

I made no demands of anyone.

I asked a question which underpins the very nature of this thread:

How is it that the person who appears to have the most passion for posting on every game available somehow became passionate about the genre in the first place when their primary dislikes of the genre are the two most prominent elements?

An from that, how is it that the seemingly most passionate poster has no great passion for elaborating on why that is.

Usually passion translates into an eagerness to talk about one's hobby to the very last breath. Like if you're at a party and you ask that guy whether he likes his job and it turns out he really does and you hear about it for the next 3 hours while you try to catch someone else's eye or change the topic without sounding like you're bored out your tree.

But, no, couch is really the enigma. An undenyable passion to the point of obsession, combined with zero interest in many key elements and almost zero patience for talking liberally about their passion.

The very nature of the thread itself is telling. Why do people even consider anything cheating in a single player game? If you yourself feel like you're cheating then that answers your won question more than asking someone else if XYZ is cheating. You clearly think you are or you wouldn't need to ask.

The extent to which something probably is contentious is if someone plays on story mode and then gives a negative review because they felt the combat was rubbish, without clarifying that they meant combat on lowest difficulty.

This would obviously be a very rare thing, but you could then extrapolate this to a whole range of other problems about communication when so many people play the same game so completely differently.

I ask how on earth couch came to be in this position because it is a genuinely fascinating position, a seemingly bizare state of being, and it's just something that would be fascinating to read about, from a human interest point of view.

 

[Tony]

I don't give a shit if anyone cheats in their single-player games and I doubt lackblogger does either. That wasn't at all the point of his post. He was wondering how it's even possible that a person would get heavily into RPGs, if they have little-to-no interest in the core gameplay of RPGs (combat).

I kind of got into an semi-argument with my daughter about this yesterday. She's away at college. She recently played Disco Elysium and loved it. RPGs, to me, are about the character builds and combat. I can't stand Disco Elysium. They didn't trick me into buying it so there's no reason for me to be angry. But I didn't look closely at the game's description and seeing some screenshots and people comparing it to Planescape, I assumed it would be right up my alley.

No combat. I can't get over it. Who would ever play an RPG with no combat? It's crazy. No one would ever want that. Except gazillions of people do. I don't get it. My mind can't accept it. I'm not mad at the game or that people enjoy the game, I just can't understand how it can be liked. I would never rate a game that I have no interest in at all poorly or anything insane like that, but I can't imagine how anyone finds it appealing in the least. Nevertheless, they certainly do. There's a huge audience for RPGs with no combat. My seed, my own offspring, is one member of that huge audience.

The older I get, the more I have no idea what is going on in the world. My son absolutely needed a topnotch PC and he only plays Terreria on it, a game that could run on a Commodore 64. Nothing makes sense any more. All I can do is appreciate the fact people enjoy things I don't, and be glad they can find some enjoyment in this world, and be happy for them (besides for my son since he completely wasted my money with that PC).