BG3 best build for dex-based dual-wielder.

[JDR13]

Let's say you attack with a shortsword, and then you use a hand crossbow for an offhand attack with your bonus action (per the Crossbow Expert feat). The feat does say you have to be holding the hand crossbow. So I would assume it does need to be in your other hand. Are you thinking that the person would actually stow the shortsword, pull out the hand crossbow, then do that bonus attack? I don't think both stowing and drawing would be allowed as a free action, so that seems impossible.

No, I'm talking about having a crossbow in each hand. Not a melee weapon in one and a crossbow in the other. It just seems impossible for someone to be able to do that unless there was some kind of very significant penalty involved. You can't reload a crossbow with one hand.

 

[Stingray]

No, I'm talking about having a crossbow in each hand. Not a melee weapon in one and a crossbow in the other. It just seems impossible for someone to be able to do that unless there was some kind of very significant penalty involved. You can't reload a crossbow with one hand.

Ah, ok I get your point now. You're right, 5e's Crossbow Expert doesn't remove the need for a free hand for reloading. Still, you could be wielding two hand crossbows as long as they're pre-loaded and then attack with both in a given round, but you wouldn't be able to do the same thing the next round I guess. BG3 ignores loading entirely as far as I can tell, so this is just a moot point there.

In 5e, it could also be moot, because I mentioned a few posts back that a literal interpretation of that feat would mean you don't even need to wield two hand crossbows. Just wield a single one, and use it for both your main attack and your offhand (bonus attack). The feat doesn't say that the hand crossbow you're holding can't be the same object as the one-handed weapon you just attacked with...

 

[JDR13]

I guess it just requires some suspension of disbelief. That's already necessary for ranged combat in BG3 anyways with the way we have an unlimited supply of arrows/bolts that appear from nowhere. I'm probably in the minority, but I would have preferred ammo to be in the game even for normal projectiles.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

The small hand crossbows, favored by the Drow, I would imagine they load up same as any other ranged weapon. After your turn and you fire off each one, you then have to reload each of them. I assume you clip one to your belt while reloading the other - which is reflected by the end of your turn. I would imagine those who can do it have it down to a science. Also magic crossbows might have it easier.

For me I assume they are reloading between attacks, like you reload a bow or a regular crossbow.

EDIT: You also do get ammunition in regards to special bolts/arrows. To me its a QOL sort of thing and a matter of ignoring like the other suspension of belief issues in a game, e.g. inventory size and so on. Sort of busy work to just have to keep managing basic arrows and bows, so only the magic ones require actual ammunition. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

 

[Stingray]

The small hand crossbows, favored by the Drow, I would imagine they load up. After your turn and you fire off each one, you then have to reload each of them. I assume you clip one to your belt while reloading the other - which is reflected by the end of your turn. I would imagine those who can do it have it down to a science. Also magic crossbows might have it easier.

Or get an Artificer (not in BG3) to put Repeating Shot on your hand crossbows

Artificer Infusions - D&D 5th Edition

dnd5ed.wikidot.com

 

[Morrandir]

So has anyone made some experience with a dex-based melee dual-wielder?

For my planned 2nd playthrough I think of a playing dual-wielding Drow rogue with a 1 level dip into fighter (for the Two-Weapon Fighting Style feat).
I'd like to go for the Arcane Trickster subclass because I like a little magic and also I would like it if he could perform the default drow tactics (globe of darkness) himself.

My plan is to go "solo" with Minthara and just keep Lae'Zel and Astarion in the camp as unworthy servants. All others die or are ignored.

Could that work out in balanced difficulty? Perhaps I could respec Astarion into Sorcerer if I need some spells in difficult fights. (I don't want to make him a Wizard as that wouldn't fit his background at all.)

 

[Stingray]

For my planned 2nd playthrough I think of a playing dual-wielding Drow rogue with a 1 level dip into fighter (for the Two-Weapon Fighting Style feat).

FYI there's gauntlets you can buy at the very beginning of Act 2 that give you Two-Weapon Fighting for free, and you don't even have to be one of the classes that could normally get it. Not worth wasting a level dip on (which would also cost you a feat, I think). Unless the gauntlet slot is that important to you.

Also if you go Arcane Trickster, you're losing an extra attack with your offhand that you'd get with the Thief subclass.

 

[Redglyph]

So has anyone made some experience with a dex-based melee dual-wielder?

For my planned 2nd playthrough I think of a playing dual-wielding Drow rogue with a 1 level dip into fighter (for the Two-Weapon Fighting Style feat).
I'd like to go for the Arcane Trickster subclass because I like a little magic and also I would like it if he could perform the default drow tactics (globe of darkness) himself.

My plan is to go "solo" with Minthara and just keep Lae'Zel and Astarion in the camp as unworthy servants. All others die or are ignored.

Could that work out in balanced difficulty? Perhaps I could respec Astarion into Sorcerer if I need some spells in difficult fights. (I don't want to make him a Wizard as that wouldn't fit his background at all.)

That's bold. Let us know how that turns out.

Whatever you do, you should use a level-12 saved game to respec (or take a drow hireling if you have another race) and test if the build you have in mind actually works in BG3. Unless you're ready to take the risk and live with it, of course.

 

[Morrandir]

FYI there's gauntlets you can buy at the very beginning of Act 2 that give you Two-Weapon Fighting for free, and you don't even have to be one of the classes that could normally get it. Not worth wasting a level dip on (which would also cost you a feat, I think). Unless the gauntlet slot is that important to you.

Ah, nice to know!
How exactly does it work with the feats with multiclassing?
I thought that I get a feat every four character levels, not class levels?

Also if you go Arcane Trickster, you're losing an extra attack with your offhand that you'd get with the Thief subclass.

I see. Need to think about that. Thanks!

That's bold. Let us know how that turns out.

I will.
But hey, they're Drow, the ultimate masterrace.
They'll crush all unworthy creatures to dust. All hail to Lolth!

Whatever you do, you should use a level-12 saved game to respec (or take a drow hireling if you have another race) and test if the build you have in mind actually works in BG3. Unless you're ready to take the risk and live with it, of course.

Good idea, thanks!

 

[Stingray]

Pretty sure feats go by class level, not character level. People often take 4 levels of a class at a time for that reason.

 

[Corwin]

That is correct, Feats are determined by class levels, not character.

 

[ChaosTheory]

FYI there's gauntlets you can buy at the very beginning of Act 2 that give you Two-Weapon Fighting for free, and you don't even have to be one of the classes that could normally get it. Not worth wasting a level dip on (which would also cost you a feat, I think). Unless the gauntlet slot is that important to you.

Also if you go Arcane Trickster, you're losing an extra attack with your offhand that you'd get with the Thief subclass.

Gloves of Dexterity are a better value IMO, as long as you're okay being set at 18 Dex the whole game, which isn't bad.

Anyway, thought it was funny my old thread got dug up, as it had near-zero interest when I posted it. The bottom line is there was, yesterday or the day before, a Youtube video (was it Wolfheart?) who had various dual-wielding builds.

They're 'fun' but quickly lose out to other builds due to the fact that you generally need bonus actions for everything but swinging your off-hand, which is required for dual-wielders. They quickly fall behind other builds in the damage arena as the game advances, as well. I'm sure they'd be fine as long as you don't care about stats or min/maxing, but for roleplaying purposes.

I've really learned to dislike 5e from this game. Way too simplified.

 

[Redglyph]

Gloves of Dexterity are great for a character with DEX as secondary stats or just to boost DEX if you don't wear armour; they also grant Attack+1. But yes, they're limited to 18.

There's a better option with a light armour (AC 10), The Graceful Cloth, with DEX+2 to maximum 20, Cat's Grace and Nimble as a Cat, so it's also fantastic for lockpicking since you get advantage. That's what you want to find so you can increase INT further or balance your build with something else. You can find it very early in act 2, if you take the Mountain Pass and talk to Lady Esther - she has many interesting items to sell, and something more.

I haven't found any better armour since.

There are other very interesting gloves and armours in act 3, but that should help you getting there.

 

[Stingray]

Gloves of Dexterity are a better value IMO, as long as you're okay being set at 18 Dex the whole game, which isn't bad.

In the scenario Morrandir described where he wants to have Two-Weapon Fighting (to optimize damage from melee off-hand), I don't think so. Yeah, using those dex gauntlets will let you save a ton of stat points (via not having to put anything into dex) as long as you're okay with topping out at 18 dex, but as a rogue, you don't need those extra stat points anywhere else anyway. You're better off putting the stat points into dex, using the TWF gloves, and avoiding the fighter dip so you get 1 extra feat. Even if nothing else, that 1 extra feat can be used to bring your dex to 20 instead of topping out at 18, which is still a win.

edit: although the most dex you can get at character creation is 17. So you already have to spend one feat to bring it up to 19 (which is basically the same as 18). Maybe it comes out mostly the same either way?

Dex gloves + fighter dip = 18 dex and 3 feats to use as you wish (since rogues get a 3rd feat at level 10)
TWF gloves + no fighter dip = 17 dex + 4 feats, 19 dex + 3 feats, or 20 dex + 2 feats

 

[Redglyph]

Hence the armour.

 

[Stingray]

Hence the armour.

If you use both the TWF gloves and that armor, you could get 20 dex while still having full freedom on 3 feats I guess (see the bit I edited into my last post)...if you're fine with sacrificing a few points of AC.

 

[Stingray]

There's also a permanent +1 stat boost you can get in Act 1, so if you're determined to change a 17 into an 18, or a 19 into a 20, without wasting a feat, you can use that for that character. Morrandir said he was going to be solo'ing, so I guess this would be a given. Means there's even less point to the dex gloves in this situation - you can just start with 17 and move it up to 18 via the boost. Add another 2 dex via the armor Redglyph mentioned, use TWF gloves, and you've got TWF + 20 dex and still 4 feats to do whatever you want with.

 

[bjon045]

I am pretty sure the + stat items apply before the items that increase your stat to a minimum value. So the most you can get if you dump dex is 18 dex. Or am I wrong? With the Circlet that gives you 17 Int I tried using a +1 int item and my Int never went above 17. Could be different with different items I guess?

 

[Stingray]

I am pretty sure the + stat items apply before the items that increase your stat to a minimum value. So the most you can get if you dump dex is 18 dex. Or am I wrong? With the Circlet that gives you 17 Int I tried using a +1 int item and my Int never went above 17. Could be different with different items I guess?

Yeah that's correct. So if you rely on the dex gloves for your dex, you'll never go above 18.

 

[Redglyph]

Yes, it's a nice combination.

It's true that AC is somewhat limited but it's unavoidable since it only relies on DEX, which won't go beyond 20 not matter what. I have a monk, so I could get WIS 18 and AC 19, but it's not the same as a rogue, even with Shadow Step. It's not a particularly exciting class overall.

There are some other AC 10 armours that provide AC +2, like Robe of the Weave. It could be an alternative for an Arcane Trickster since it also provides +1 on Spell Save DC and spell attack rolls, and 1-6 HP each time they succeed a saving throw against a spell. But personally I'd rather have the other one. There might be other gear - this game is awesome for that.