BioWare - Too Expensive?

[Unrestigered]

If SWtOR has 5 million subscribers at $15 a month that’s 75mil revenue a month on subscriptions alone, and almost 1bil per year. Add in unit sales and micro-transactions, crazy Asian subscriptions fees, etc, and who knows? Offset it by PPE and operating expenses (customer service for wow must cost a pretty penny) and you still have a ton of profit. EA paid for a wow killer, it’s the only thing that makes any sort of financial sense.

 

[DArtagnan]

If SWtOR has 5 million subscribers at $15 a month that’s 75mil revenue a month on subscriptions alone, and almost 1bil per year. Add in unit sales and micro-transactions, crazy Asian subscriptions fees, etc, and who knows? Offset it by PPE and operating expenses (customer service for wow must cost a pretty penny) and you still have a ton of profit. EA paid for a wow killer, it’s the only thing that makes any sort of financial sense.

Let's see how well it does

Going by word of mouth - the reaction is pretty divided.

Based on their promises, it seems like it will do great - but judging from the videos I've seen, there's nothing to warrant such high expectations.

 

[Moriendor]

Let's see how well it does

Going by word of mouth - the reaction is pretty divided.

That's putting it quite mildly. I've seen the game numerous times in "Biggest Disappointment of E3 2011" kind of articles and that is definitely saying something about the game because at least pre-release EA and BioWare usually get all the hype that they are asking for and then some. So negative articles at this time must mean that the game is seriously deep in "teh suck" territory.

Based on their promises, it seems like it will do great - but judging from the videos I've seen, there's nothing to warrant such high expectations.

Fully agree. For a big budget BioWare game it's looking pathetically bad. If it would be one of those Korean F2P offerings I wouldn't say a word but Star Wars The Old Republic should have a totally different look and feel and level of sophistication.
They might be able to sell five million copies within the first year on the Star Wars name alone but I highly doubt that the game is going to have much of an attachment rate. My unsubstantiated guess is that they can call themselves very lucky if they manage to sustain a subscriber base that is anywhere near just one million.

 

[azarhal]

My unsubstantiated guess is that they can call themselves very lucky if they manage to sustain a subscriber base that is anywhere near just one million.

They only need 500k to make a profit. EA/BioWare always aimed low with the game, it's the "fan" that over-hyped it to the other side of the Galaxy. Although, I really don't understand why people can claim SWTOR will be failure, when they haven't played the game at all. Also, the "Biggest Disappointment of E3 2011" articles are coming form people who want a Released Date NOW!

Zoeller explain the current problem for SWTOR in the official forum:

It's easy to summarize the current problem.

Q: When do you release
A: We plan to release in 2011

Q: When do you release exactly?
A: We plan to release in 2011

Q: Surely you must have more precise plans?
A: We plan on 2011. We're not precise for [number of reasons]

Q: I think those reasons are not valid. When do you release?
A: We plan to release in 2011

The answers are there. The communication is there. It's just that people don't like the answers.

 

[DArtagnan]

Aiming low? Hardly. Didn't they pour almost 100M$ into it?

No way they're aiming low.

But there are just as many positive comments as there are negative based on beta/press events. I tend not to trust anyone on this kind of thing - but I'm pretty sceptical overall about this game.

 

[hishadow]

If a totally unknow game like Rift can make a fairly large dent in the western subscription numbers of Warcraft, I definitly think there's some potential for SW:TOR to wreak some havok with them. We'll see. Public beta should soon be approaching, then we can test it out for ourself. I'm atleast a little bit excited about it since there's no other mmo out there that remotely interests me. In the end it'll depend on how enganging it for me and my friends. If its not, then it'll be thrown on the scrapheap with the rest of the mmos we've tried.

 

[Moriendor]

They only need 500k to make a profit. EA/BioWare always aimed low with the game

I think we need to differentiate here. Yes, it is true that EA's head honcho Riccitiello said that SWTOR only needs 500K subs to be "substantially profitable" BUT let's take a look at what he said exactly…

"We previously described to folks that 500,000 subscribers saw the game as substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing that we would write home about," he said. "[But] anything north of 1 million subscribers is a very profitable business."

So what he's really saying here is that the game would be profitable with a subscriber base of 500K subs but that they would be majorly disappointed if it ended up at such a low target. This means that they are not aiming low (just look at the crazy budget as DArt pointed out).

With regard to "low", what Riccitiello did there in that conference call, however, was to lower expectations. Analysts and shareholders were expecting a WoW killer with millions of subs. Riccitiello is not blind or deaf. He knows that the critical reception of SWTOR has been rather lukewarm so far and that the game might end up as a failure or just a pretty average success at best. He's covering his bases now with statements like that. He has now set expectations at 500K to 1M rather than some crazy WoW-like figures.

Although, I really don't understand why people can claim SWTOR will be failure, when they haven't played the game at all.

As an experienced gamer you can usually tell from gameplay videos with a very high degree of certainty whether you would enjoy playing a game or not. SWTOR doesn't seem to click for many people. As for myself -as I said above- it's the "look and feel" that seems off. Aside from the fact that I'd like a more mature look for a Star Wars MMO instead of the cartoony style of SWTOR, I just think that the game looks silly. All you ever see in real gameplay scenes (not to be confused with the cinematics) is stiff, mostly immobile, poorly animated characters exchanging blaster fire or taking turns swinging a light bat at each other. It's completely devoid of any dynamics.
I'm also not overly fond of the world design. The vast Tatooine desert is a joke just as it was in KotOR. Every kindergarten has a bigger sandbox than that.
Naturally it would be preferable to get some hands-on time with the game but my personal conviction that this game is "teh suck" stands at ~99.7% .

Also, the "Biggest Disappointment of E3 2011" articles are coming form people who want a Released Date NOW!

I'm not so sure about that. One of the big German print mags had SWTOR on their negative list and they are usually not driven by extreme impatience. We'll have to wait & see, of course…

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

One of the big German print mags had SWTOR on their negative list and they are usually not driven by extreme impatience.

They had ? (I think I can imagine which one it is ...)
Do you know why ?

 

[Moriendor]

They had ? (I think I can imagine which one it is …)
Do you know why ?

Sure. The article with the top five disappointments of E3 can be found right here at Gamestar. Coincidentally, Gamestar also posted a new preview of the game today. The author's conclusion is once again a mixed bag. He's both, hopeful and skeptic.

 

[Unrestigered]

I have a long history of disliking BW's games (besides ME 1) and I think SWtOR will be the next big thing and replace wow. It won't happen over night, but after a year wow will almost be dead and SWtOR will be it. Then SWtOR will be replaced by World of Diablo in late 2013, early 2014, and that will rule for five years. But SWtOR will lose some steam when it can't come out with content patches to match the games leveling experience, and expansions that do not match it either. But, only time will tell

 

[azarhal]

I don't speak German , but Google tells me the German previewer is crying that he didn't got to see any High Level content so he was disappointed (he just got a trailer of a Raid poor guy). He also think that it's high time they show some (what if it's not ready yet?).

Maybe he should have a word with EA/BioWare marketing department to tell them what they are supposed to be doing. This was sarcasm by the way.

 

[DeepO]

Leave predictions on eeeeeepppppp dudes, thnx.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I don't speak German , but Google tells me the German previewer is crying that he didn't got to see any High Level content so he was disappointed (he just got a trailer of a Raid poor guy). He also think that it's high time they show some (what if it's not ready yet?).

Maybe he should have a word with EA/BioWare marketing department to tell them what they are supposed to be doing. This was sarcasm by the way.

Not really, as far as I understood it : He really laments on "old" quest design and other aspects the reviewer doesn't consider "modern" and too much like "standard".

EDit : Yes, you are right. I was reading a different article.

He laments especially on "the graphics being too much dusty" (in terms of graphics quality).

 

[Grimlorn]

Pretty sure this MMO is going to cost more than 100 million. Probably close to 200 million altogether with advertising, etc. Starcraft 2 cost like $100 million to make and that was a single player game. EA has to be spending more here.

I also can't wait to see it fail, because even word being leaked from the game testers is the game isn't that great. It's just a generic MMO. It looks like they took WoW and just added Star Wars skins on everything with some tweaks to everything. I mean who wants to be a Jedi that stands around healing, or watching a storm trooper take out a Jedi? It ruins the Star Wars universe imo.

You could get away with it in a fanasy setting because of the use of magic, but I don't see how you can do it here and be enjoyable.

Also their single player stories for each character is a stupid idea, not to mention it has to be overhyped. There is no way they can give that many choices in a MMO. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a small quest chain depending on your race and class. Nothing special. Most people don't play a MMO for the single player content because they can go buy a single player game that doesn't require a subscription and is more catered towards the single player experience. MMOs are for grouping and socializing in gaming.

They should have done Kotor 3 and wrapped up the series.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Most people don't play a MMO for the single player content because they can go buy a single player game that doesn't require a subscription and is more catered towards the single player experience.

I tend to believe that what grows here is a kind of mish-mash between MMO and SP-offline game.

Keeping in mind that online connections (permanently, if possible) are THE kind of copy protections of "modern games, this seems to grow into something like ... slowly, but steadily eradicating SP-offline experiences and replacing them into SP/MP-online experiences.

My fear is that - if this "growing" becomes into something with full swing - SP-offline games are actually going to die out.
At least in non-Indie scale.

SP-online might become the norm, then.

Hints towards that :

- First, people grow accustomed to online connections via MP/MMO gaming
- Second, people will grow accustomed to online connections via this SW:TOR-style SP-online gaming.

Now, that's of course just an assumption. A projection of current developments into the future. I really don't know what the *actual* future will look like ...

 

[hishadow]

I tend to believe that what grows here is a kind of mish-mash between MMO and SP-offline game.

Keeping in mind that online connections (permanently, if possible) are THE kind of copy protections of "modern games, this seems to grow into something like … slowly, but steadily eradicating SP-offline experiences and replacing them into SP/MP-online experiences.

My fear is that - if this "growing" becomes into something with full swing - SP-offline games are actually going to die out.
At least in non-Indie scale.

That happend a long time ago with Guild Wars which is basically a singleplayer game with lan support + a lobby. To be an fully fledge mmo there has to be atleast some form of world simulation handled by the server, or else its just an ordinary multiplayer game, even though you can play it over the internet.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I see. I never played Guild Wars, and because of its title I believed it be be an MMORPG.

 

[booboo]

I see. I never played Guild Wars, and because of its title I believed it be be an MMORPG.

I played Guild Wars for a few sessions - as a single player game it was rather crap. I also tried venturing forth with some other people online, that wasn't very interesting either. I realized then that I like my RPGs to be single player experiences, with a story built around me (because I'm an ego-maniac ;-) I really hope you are wrong about SP games morphing into second rate online/MP crap… What I have seen of SW:ToR has me rather turned off, and I am a long-time SW fan (a child of the SW generation!).

 

[azarhal]

I see. I never played Guild Wars, and because of its title I believed it be be an MMORPG.

It's a Cooperative RPG or CRPG. The title have nothing to do with player made guilds (lots of people do that mistake), it's lore related.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Ah, okay, thanks.
A misleading title then, eh ?