Cyberpunk 2077 - Unconventional classes like Journalists

[joxer]

But it's not a game particularly high on my wanted list after what they did with Witcher 3.

Yea, because they dared to make antiBInfinite story:

CP2077 is my #1 want to play ASAP. Assuming it's not MMO.
Not sure why is everyone on talking about journalists - I've expected everyone discussing executives.

 

[NewDArt]

I'm probably just not as big a fan of the mainstreaming of the franchise as you are

 

[joxer]

If hairworks means mainstreaming, I guess you're correct.

 

[NewDArt]

"Witcher senses" auto solving of quests, pushover combat, streamlined character system, and so on.

It's ok, not everyone likes challenge or intricate mechanics

 

[JDR13]

At least it's not mainstream on the same level as Bioware or Bethesda. At least not yet.

 

[NewDArt]

Well, I think the writing is much better - but the gameplay and complexity have been similarly affected.

I don't blame CDPR, though. I mean the budget has become huge - so they better not exclude the mainstream.

It's inevitable - and I don't think the primary qualities go away because of it.

It's just that the primary qualities of the Witcher franchise weren't really *my* kind of qualities. As in, the characters, dialogue and narrative. I really enjoy those qualities - but I've always been more of a gameplay guy.

In that same way, I don't think the qualities of Bioware and Bethesda games have gone away because they've become mainstream.

Well, Bioware games have definitely gone a bit downhill - but that started long, long ago. It has less to do with mainstreaming and more to do with simply losing their creative edge. I don't think they're in creative control - unlike Bethsoft. Bethsoft have more or less full creative control.

Personally, I think Bethsoft are stronger today than they've ever been - but there's no doubt that their games suffer from mainstreaming - like any publisher-funded AAA game would.

 

[JDR13]

Well I definitely still enjoy Bethesda's games. I can't say the same for Bioware though which is real shame considering how much I used to admire them.

I haven't really enjoyed a Bioware game since Dragon Age: Origins, and even that was watered down compared to their older work.

Bethesda is still making great games when it comes to atmosphere and exploration, but I worry about their future titles if they continue to simplify them even further.

 

[NewDArt]

Well I definitely still enjoy Bethesda's games. I can't say the same for Bioware though which is real shame considering how much I used to admire them.

I haven't really enjoyed a Bioware game since Dragon Age: Origins, and even that was watered down compared to their older work.

Bethesda is still making great games when it comes to atmosphere and exploration, but I worry about their future titles if they continue to simplify them even further.

It all comes down to personal taste

I've greatly enjoyed Andromeda and quite liked Inquisition. Now, I've never absolutely loved a Bioware game except KotOR - and I was never their biggest fan. Probably one reason why I have an easier time giving them a break.

I think Bethsoft games have increased in both fidelity and complexity in several ways - but they've certainly moved away from "traditional" RPG stats and screens.

I personally agree with that choice, because I'm on the same page when it comes to the emphasis on immersion and freeform gameplay. I'm not really a fan of stats for the sake of stats - or complicated, intricate mechanics that get in the way of the flow of the experience. It all depends on the kind of game you're trying to make.

For instance, I consider both the combat and character systems of Skyrim and Fallout 4 far, far more interesting and entertaining than those in Morrowind and Oblivion. They're also much richer in terms of experimentation and playstyle strategies.

But again, it comes down to what you enjoy and what you find interesting.

I would adore a CDPR game if they upped their game in terms of mechanics, combat and especially exploration.

That would be ideal, really - and Bethsoft would have a very hard time competing with that.

 

[sakichop]

I hope they focus on exploration, gameplay and character progression more. Not being stuck with a witcher may help in this department.

Like DArt i'm hopeful but not particularly excited for this game after playing the witcher 3. TO me the Witcher 3 is a bit of a one trick pony. The quest design and production values are through the roof amazing. Best I've ever played. Everything else though is very middling imo.

 

[JDR13]

A huge Dark Souls fan calling TW3 a one trick pony. Now that's ironic.

 

[NewDArt]

Now now, let's not get personal about these games again

We all like different things - and sometimes in unpredictable ways.

Bioshock Infinite, for instance, was an outlier for me - because the gameplay wasn't all that interesting. Well, I loved the exploration - but the rest was inferior even to Bioshock (apart from the actual shooting, which was better), which was already hugely inferior to System Shock 2.

The story really, really hit home for me, though. Sometimes, it's hard to categorize how and why.

If only I hadn't expected meaningful exploration from Witcher 3 - I suspect I would love it as much, if not more, than I loved Witcher 2 - which was a lot more linear and focused on simply delivering a fantastic story. Balance was also a lot tighter in the original release version.

But I made the mistake of playing it like I would Skyrim - just going out and doing my own thing. That was really what the marketing and PR had led me to believe was a big part of the game.

I felt punished for that in several ways - and I never managed to ignore the world, and just go from quest to quest. That's probably what I should have done.

 

[Wisdom]

"Witcher senses" auto solving of quests, pushover combat, streamlined character system, and so on.

It's ok, not everyone likes challenge or intricate mechanics

I really like the series and the publisher, but I completely agree with Dart here. The autosolve and highlight was really really bad. Plus the combat even on hard mode is easy mode. I will finish the game as soon as I find the right combination of mods that make combat feel a bit more challenging and fun.

 

[NewDArt]

I really like the series and the publisher, but I completely agree with Dart here. The autosolve and highlight was really really bad. Plus the combat even on hard mode is easy mode. I will finish the game as soon as I find the right combination of mods that make combat feel a bit more challenging and fun.

Yeah, I played on Death March - and the only real challenge was in the initial stages, and only because of the RIDICULOUS damage scaling, where being hit in the back was akin to being run over by a truck - completely regardless of armor.

But once you had established your main arsenal (in my case, it was focused on the Igni sign) - 9 out of 10 encounters became a complete joke.

I don't really think that was necessarily due to mainstreaming - but more about CDPR not knowing what the hell they were doing with combat. Much like the case was in Witcher 1 - and in Witcher 2 after they patched it.

I also think the crossbow mechanics were downright awful.

Sometimes, I'm truly astonished at the pass this game gets in a surprising amount of ways.

 

[JDR13]

Bioshock Infinite is very good. I don't admire it as much as you do, but I was impressed by the story telling. I still think it could have been a lot better though. I found the combat extremely repetitive.

I still need to replay it with the DLCs.

I didn't have a problem with exploration in TW3 except for the crappy loot system. I agree you can't really play it the same way as a Beth game though.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Well I definitely still enjoy Bethesda's games. I can't say the same for Bioware though which is real shame considering how much I used to admire them.

I haven't really enjoyed a Bioware game since Dragon Age: Origins, and even that was watered down compared to their older work.

Bethesda is still making great games when it comes to atmosphere and exploration, but I worry about their future titles if they continue to simplify them even further.

Doubt they will change direction...Skyrim comprised of fedex/kill quests with no "fail state" ( other than dying), almost no "choices" and without negative repercussions( in gameplay or storyline), gameplay easily broken even at early levels, entirely reliant on following quest markers( without bothering with dialogue or even journal instructions) and few non combat/secondary skills (lockpick, pickpocket, speech, etc) were already superfluous. Fallout went even further.
Hard to call it an "rpg" at this point, more dungeon to dungeon hiking "experience" with a lot of busywork in between ( crafting, Sims elements, etc).
CDPR games have their own pros and cons next to one another, but they've consistently improved and expanded.
I'm not really expecting even half of skills/equipment/arsenal next to PnP, but that would still leave a massive variety...weapons alone cover a huge range of types, classics ( standard military) to exotics( nunchaka's, electric whip, etc).

http://datafortress2020.com/ultrachrome/bh2.html

Mike didn't go into any details, but he did say ( on recent conference ), " what he saw/played was closer to 2020 than even he expected".

 

[NewDArt]

Bioshock Infinite is very good. I don't admire it as much as you do, but I was impressed by the story telling. I still think it could have been a lot better though. I found the combat extremely repetitive.

I still need to replay it with the DLCs.

I didn't have a problem with exploration in TW3 except for the crappy loot system. I agree you can't really play it the same way as a Beth game though.

I agree the combat was underwhelming - and I'm not really a shooter fan.

You haven't played the DLCs? Well, you really should. They're both worth it, but the second one is truly excellent, in my opinion.

You also get to explore Rapture in a superior engine

 

[RPGFool]

It's true that Witcher 3 isn't for everyone. It has a deep rich story and isn't just a console player button masher. Cyberpunk 2077 probably won't be a button masher either and may disappoint some for that reason.

Am really looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077, the new genre RPG from CDPR. They'll put the time and effort to make deep characters, and a rich story with new, creative, and different mechanics…

Avant-garde ain't no button masher.

__

 

[JDR13]

You guys must be grand masters of RPG combat, because I didn't find TW3 to be that easy.

I also avoided the special armor sets though because I didn't like how those quests were presented, and I didn't metagame in any way.

 

[NewDArt]

Well, I felt the game really, REALLY wanted me to use those sets - so I did.

Also, I think it's fair to say that I find the majority of RPGs easy in terms of combat.

I'm not going to call myself a grand master - but I honestly DO have a lot of experience with optimising and power-gaming. I guess it's just my natural response to combat after years of competing for (and winning) the top DPS spot in WoW raids

It's not just because I want to be powerful - but also because I don't particularly enjoy endless combat, so I prefer making it as painless as possible

 

[JDR13]

Well, I felt the game really, REALLY wanted me to use those sets .

Yeah, they were sort of shoved in our faces which is exactly what I didn't like. I had a real problem with common merchants having all the maps to those "long-lost" sets.