Fair enough. The optimal mix of RPG elements is different for everyone. Don't put the game away before you make it out of that initial dungeon. That one was a bit of a trudge.
Don't get me wrong, I thought what it did it did do absolutely perfectly, I really couldn't fault it. In terms of quality and balance and polish it absolutely beat planescape hands down, but planescape had that elusive element that completely captured my imagination that BG1&2 simply didn't and I forgave any amount of flaws for that. The BGs were 10/10 deliveries of what a good quality RPG should be and what I expected one to be, but planescape (& the fallouts a couple of years earlier) went beyond what I'd realised the genre could deliver and had far more impact for me.
I did finish BGII anyway, I just didn't feel utterly gutted after it was over in the way I did with planescape.
I'm talking about impact on the state of the genre at that time. It's not even close, Daggerfall practically flew under the radar compared to Baldur's Gate.
Fair enough, in terms of significance though the genre has moved towards daggerfall and away from BG.
Once again Benedict I agree with everything you said except M&M. I really hated those games. Preferred Wizardry or Ultima.
On a lot of levels I preferred Wizardry or Ultima too. Admittedly Wizardry I found there was so much combat and so many hidden or tricky things that it could be hard work, and Ultima required a lot more engaging my brain, where the M&Ms were just unchallenging (but enjoyable for me) epic romps through big fantasy worlds. Ultima & Wizardry were also those few years earlier so I couldn't use them as examples for there not being a drought.
I think for me the M&Ms hit a really good mix of open sandbox and individual handcrafted. I could go anywhere right from the off (barring getting killed to DEATH all over the place) and had a lot of freedom, but the world's weren't autogenerated and empty. I think the first couple of Gothics were the only other thing that had that same kind of feeling, and it's something that for me makes a big contribution to immersion over and above any plot or characters.