Fluent Vents about the state of the gaming industry! (Pillars of Eternity related)

[DArtagnan]

I used to work in QA, maybe I could. I basically ran the department as a walk-on, entry level employee.

Tell Obsidian to call me with a good offer and I'll consider it.

You'd have to do actual work. Seems a bit beneath you

 

[Deleted User]

Hmm, you're right. I don't like doing that nasty stuff.

 

[Toff]

I like you Fluent but it's pretty clear that your young and have never coded or been involved in a large complicated project. Some things that sound great in the planning stage just don't turn out as useful as you thought it would be in a real use scenario. Bugs happen. Even great code has bugs as some things just don't work right even tho they should. Strategy books have been pointless since like 1980, I was really surprised that you bought one. I think the last strategy guide I got that was actually useful was Wizardry 1. To expect any large and complicated game is be perfect and bug free on release is irrational. There's a reason I never buy a games until a few patches have come out for it. Don't get jaded, I would prefer you to still be our everything is awesome guy.

 

[Deleted User]

Toff, I like you but it's pretty clear you are missing my point entirely.

I've been involved in plenty of large, complicated projects, often as one of the main contributors. I know not everything turns out perfectly. But if I had a release date set, you can guarantee that the balance of my game would be done and ready to go. I wouldn't be changing things after the game is released. Period.

Bug fixes? Sure, although if you found these bugs, you should ALWAYS push the release date back and work on that.

I would be completely fine if they released this game as Early Access. I'd be completely fine with that. But they called it an official release. If it's an official release, gamebreaking bugs should be taken care of for the most part and the balance shouldn't even be questioned at that point.

But hey, if you are happy with how the current setup works, fine. But I'm not. I hope it gets better, but if people are just that happy to eat it all up as it's going now, I'm not sure if the future is that bright in this department.

 

[lostforever]

I can sort of understand where Fluent is coming from and I don't like these bugged filled games as well. If am an avid collector of game manuals, strategy guides etc then I will be also annoyed as well.

However I also understand that even the biggest software companies with crap load of cash and the best software engineers cannot release bug free software. The best minds at Microsoft, Apple and Google release software with bug which have far reaching consequences. Given this, there is no way in hell a small and struggling company like Obsidian is ever going to release a perfect product.

As far as I am aware these game breaking bugs are only being discoverer now. Which means Obsidian QA missed then so are all the people who alpha and beta tested. I will be annoyed if these bug were know before release and they still released the game but nothing can be done about unknown bugs like this and we shouldn't blame Obsidian.

 

[Toff]

No Fluent, in the real world you cannot always push release dates back. Payroll is expensive. Taxes are expensive. Insurance is expensive. Rent, utilities and other associated costs are expensive. Your view of game development is flawed.

 

[sakichop]

So you've had your rant Fluent and I agree I dislike buggy releases as well. That's why I wait for the game to be patched and all content to be release before buying but you don't like that solution either.

So the question is, what are you going to do about it? I don't think this rant will be effective since the 1,000's of posts on steam complaining about buggy games isn't seeming to have an impact.

You've already shouted 10/10 , best game I've ever played. That's not going to discourage people from buying the game.

Complaining about it and then supporting it won't affect change it will only make you Joxer.

 

[Damian]

Toff, I like you but it's pretty clear you are missing my point entirely.

I've been involved in plenty of large, complicated projects, often as one of the main contributors. I know not everything turns out perfectly. But if I had a release date set, you can guarantee that the balance of my game would be done and ready to go. I wouldn't be changing things after the game is released. Period.

Bug fixes? Sure, although if you found these bugs, you should ALWAYS push the release date back and work on that.

I would be completely fine if they released this game as Early Access. I'd be completely fine with that. But they called it an official release. If it's an official release, gamebreaking bugs should be taken care of for the most part and the balance shouldn't even be questioned at that point.

But hey, if you are happy with how the current setup works, fine. But I'm not. I hope it gets better, but if people are just that happy to eat it all up as it's going now, I'm not sure if the future is that bright in this department.

They did do the beta access thing...

 

[ChaosTheory]

I think the bottom line— and I've said it before specifically in reference to BioWare games— is that you should wait a good 6-12 months after release to buy a game anymore.

= reduced price
= reduced bugs
= reduced forum drama

= increased content/dlc
= increased wiki info
= increased 'hip gamer rebel' factor

But that fish hook snags me every time. "Maybe this will be the game that changes all that… Maybe this game will be different."

Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Deleted User]

So you've had your rant Fluent and I agree I dislike buggy releases as well. That's why I wait for the game to be patched and all content to be release before buying but you don't like that solution either.

So the question is, what are you going to do about it? I don't think this rant will be effective since the 1,000's of posts on steam complaining about buggy games isn't seeming to have an impact.

You've already shouted 10/10 , best game I've ever played. That's not going to discourage people from buying the game.

Complaining about it and then supporting it won't affect change it will only make you Joxer.

You're right, and that's where I'm conflicted. But again, I'm not just piling on Obsidian here. The same thing happened with D:OS, and that game still has patches in the work, tweaking things and adding stuff! So it's not strictly piling on Obsidian here.

I support the game because I believe it's an amazing game. It really is. Unfortunately, some things surrounding the game raise a few issues for me. I feel disrespected that they are still tweaking the balance of the game after its release. I am upset that the manual already has countless errors and the strategy guide has many errors as well. All I can do now is just hope that they find the perfect balance soon and work on the expansion instead. Oh, and I hope at least 50% of the strategy guide/manual info still applies to the game...

I certainly don't want to pile on Obsidian here, though, as I feel they are building something really, really great with Pillars. Other than some gamebreaking things, and countless bugs being reported on the Obsidian forums, it's a wonderful experience. As I said, one of best RPGs since Baldur's Gate, if you ask me.

They did do the beta access thing…

I know, but it probably should have went longer with more people testing. Just my opinion. I think the game could have obviously been cooked a bit longer, and that would have resulted in less issues that I personally have with the game.

And I just think that when you have something like a Prima guide, or a paper manual, you should really be careful to not tweak your core elements too much after those have been printed. That's just my own opinion, but I want those things to be accurate as much as is possible.

 

[Drithius]

I think the bottom line— and I've said it before specifically in reference to BioWare games— is that you should wait a good 6-12 months after release to buy a game anymore.

= reduced price
= reduced bugs
= reduced forum drama

= increased content/dlc
= increased wiki info
= increased 'hip gamer rebel' factor

And reduced likelihood of the game's developer and/or publisher deeming it worthwhile (or even surviving) to produce further titles in the series/genre.

There's a stark difference between not condoning buggy launches and not supporting the developer whatsoever until a 75% off Steam sale hits.

 

[Gorath]

You're right, and that's where I'm conflicted. But again, I'm not just piling on Obsidian here. The same thing happened with D:OS, and that game still has patches in the work, tweaking things and adding stuff! So it's not strictly piling on Obsidian here.

In case of Larian it's already known that they couldn't delay the game anymore. Not even for a week. The bank killed their credit line and demanded their money back yesterday or else.

 

[Ripper]

And reduced likelihood of the game's developer and/or publisher deeming it worthwhile (or even surviving) to produce further titles in the series/genre.

There's a stark difference between not condoning buggy launches and not supporting the developer whatsoever until a 75% off Steam sale hits.

I generally agree with that, and buy the game at launch, even though I'm going to wait ages to play it. I do make an exception for massive EA-style games with a DLC strategy, where I know they'll eventually launch a fully patched GOTY edition with all the content.

 

[Corwin]

Fluent, I have one word for you about releasing games when they're finished: GRIMOIRE!!

 

[Aubrielle]

Fluent, I have one word for you about releasing games when they're finished: GRIMOIRE!!

Ouch.

 

[CelticFrost]

You're right, and that's where I'm conflicted. But again, I'm not just piling on Obsidian here. The same thing happened with D:OS, and that game still has patches in the work, tweaking things and adding stuff! So it's not strictly piling on Obsidian here.
.

There was really nothing seriously wrong with D:OS from day one. I never had one serious problem with the game. Unlike PoE, where it is completely unplayable as I found out today after trying and trying to finish Raedrics quest.

Even with the patch coming on GOG I think I have to start over as I read once you gone into Raedrics you have trigged the quest. Well I went in very early in the game and realized I wasn't strong enough.

So I have been playing doing other quest building up my characters etc… If this is the case that I just can't go back todays saved games and restart the final fight I will not be restarting. No matter how much I was starting to like and enjoy the game.

Something this early in a game and messed up should have never been missed. It isn't just a bug or some balancing problem. I have played this quest I bet 7 or 8 different ways(10 hours worth) there is so many things that can and do go wrong with it. The only thing I can take away from it, is the finial battle I have really nailed that down.

 

[CelticFrost]

I'm still mad that the game made me resort to looking for a walk through for the above quest. I thought I had forgot how to play a RPG and should just play first player shooters with my Children.

 

[Thrasher]

Hmm the only problem I had was poor Eder getting stomped as he kited the mob back to the kill zone. It doesn't seem fair that most enemies can run faster.

 

[booboo]

Hmm the only problem I had was poor Eder getting stomped as he kited the mob back to the kill zone. It doesn't seem fair that most enemies can run faster.

Yeah, what's up with that? I don't think I've ever managed to outrun anything, with anyone. Granted, I wasn't "hasted", but still....

 

[Nephologist]

Fluent, I have one word for you about releasing games when they're finished: GRIMOIRE!!

I hear it's going to ship with zero bugs and a 300 page hardcover manual. Supposed to be released next Friday...