General News - CRPGs are back

[Copper Coin]

Absurd. The first game was mediocre, and Deadfire improves just about everything.

 

[Ripper]

The thing is, I can't comment on Deadfire, because I haven't played it yet, but that rather speaks to the point about about sales and quality. I love this style of RPG, but:

- The first one was patched over a long time to the point of being significantly different (because it clearly had a lot of problems.)

- I found the systems and character building to be weak. Far inferior to D&D.

- many of the creative elements seemed mediocre.

- Simply, I didn't think it was all that good.

So, I didn't rush out to buy the second one.

Oh, and the ship combat looked crap.

 

[purpleblob]

Absurd. The first game was mediocre, and Deadfire improves just about everything.

Ok, I'm done here. You keep on believing PoE2 is superior then because its obvious a fact to you.

I rest my case.

 

[Polyester]

Great article, but I don't believe that a couple of RPGs from a certain 3 devs make a comeback of any sort.

At the same time it's very strange Numenera's failure is so openly discussed, DOS2 is lauded as selling like hotcakes, and somehow any mention of Obsidian and Deadfire skirts around the obvious disaster of sales it has been.

Btw, any number of positive changes PoE2 made to the formula from the first game, there's twise as many that it completely botched.

 

[Farflame]

Deadfire has a very creative setting. It takes place in the fantasy equivalent of Polynesia, which is under exploitation by foreign trading companies and pirate refugees.

That is probably interesting setting (at least to some degree, I like the basic idea), but the whole "package" doesnt really sound "very creative" to me. To make fantasy Polynesia and bring common themes from history there (like its not fantasy world) is kind of "bland uninspired" idea to paraphrase you.

I'll take that over the bland uninspired settings of the Baldurs Gate saga

Funny is that PoE is actually somewhat similar to BG in this regard. BG1 is pretty generic setting as well as PoE. PoE2 is "fantasy Polynesia" while BG2 takes place mainly in Athkatla which we can see as mild "fantasy orient". I dont say its very original place but some fans may think its not far from "fantasy Polynesia" or maybe even prefer it to "fantasy Polynesia".

 

[Zloth]

To take the topic back 24 hours...

So CRPG is for games primarily designed around consoles. What does that mean now with the popularity of Steam's Big Picture mode? Consoles and PCs have been growing toward each other for a long time now. Off hand, I think the only big difference between a low (and sometimes not so low depending on when the last generation came out) end PC and a console is that PCs can mod games much easier.

 

[Drithius]

It's far easier to design for a console when your game's mechanics are so simplistic as to fit within a single radial menu. So, no, the big difference between a console and pc RPG should not simply be better mod support - but it tends to be.

By the way, why is the vast majority of this thread discusing RPGs involving elfs and faeries? Broaden your horizons!

 

[Polyester]

To take the topic back 24 hours…

So CRPG is for games primarily designed around consoles. What does that mean now with the popularity of Steam's Big Picture mode? Consoles and PCs have been growing toward each other for a long time now. Off hand, I think the only big difference between a low (and sometimes not so low depending on when the last generation came out) end PC and a console is that PCs can mod games much easier.

Technically, games developed for console, even if it's low end hardware compared to PC, are more optimized to run on it, the devs having to develop for one configuration (two these days, with the mid cycle ones).

On the other hand, is having a high end PC really worth it? Sure, there are some games that require it, and a subset of players that strive to play the latest and greatest on 4K HDR 120 FPS but given the indie explosion, there are truckloads of games that don't really call for such powerful hardware, and just run.

Also, desktop hardware hasn't really been a huge priority for years now, the chips that get the latest techs first have been laptop/tablet/mobile ones (processors) or mining (graphic cards).

 

[Darth Tagnan]

If we're talking about traditional old-fashioned CRPGs, then they've been back for a while.

Also, finally, most other genres have incorporated many of the more appealing RPG features - which is just great for someone with broad tastes.

I got tired of popular/established genres really fast, back in the day. Usually because they didn't have much to offer in terms of progression or gameplay evolution.

But, these days, even games like shooters and sidescrollers have RPG elements enough to make me stay interested a little longer.

Future is very bright when it comes to the games themselves. Somewhat less bright when it comes to the time to play them - and the ability to avoid distraction.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Never went away. Big number of releases for decades. Except that players who state this non sense usually refer to a very specific design that cut to their tastes.
Like UGoIGO crowd unable to take the japanese offer in UgoIgo products. Because it was japanese etc

- ISOMETRIC camera doesnt sell nowadays -.

It is not like LOL.

 

[daveyd]

It's far easier to design for a console when your game's mechanics are so simplistic as to fit within a single radial menu. So, no, the big difference between a console and pc RPG should not simply be better mod support - but it tends to be.

By the way, why is the vast majority of this thread discusing RPGs involving elfs and faeries? Broaden your horizons!

Tell that to the RPG developers! I'd love to see more CRPGs that are somewhere other than medieval fantasy or post-apocalyptic. When I've asked indie developers about it seems they are under the impression that doing an unconventional setting is more risky, i.e., RPG fans are comfortable magical Elves but more skeptical of the unfamiliar.

Iron Tower is making New World (colony spaceship) and of course there's a few cyberpunk RPGs on the way, and Disco Elysium, Prisonscape, & Odd Gods .. but aside from that the vast majority of recent / upcoming CRPGs are still in land of faeries (and a few Fallout wannabes). The Kickstarter for sci-fi RPG Final Equinox is not going well (despite having a pretty solid pitch IMO). So if there's all these elf-less RPGs being made, I'm not aware of them.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Pillars of Eternity and all other "spirirual successors".

Kickstarter campaign using that very "nolstagia" as a bait. Heaps of uninspiring, thrown in stretch goals. Underwhelming world and gameplay. Cheap references to old games.

AAA games from modern Bioware, Bethesda etc

All about graphics, over exeggerated animation, sex scenes as romances.

That's nothing new. RPGs have been borrowing from other genres, even more than we've seen with modern games adding "light progression systems".
And you can see it in upcoming Kickstarters like King Maker, Vogel's wish, etc. Plenty of people find older classics "uninspired" compared to modern ones, outside of insular communities like codex, watch, etc. They hardly invented elves and dragons, first time around and most of their lore/world history was based on someone else's work.

I found the systems and character building to be weak. Far inferior to D&D.

How so? I'm not the biggest fan of Sawyer's system, but hard to see how BG1/II has more depth to it.
Stats are entirely one sided benefits to only specific type of character, with level up you press ACCEPT to receive passive bonuses ( health, spells, saving throws, etc), multi classing is far more limited, skills and weapon proficiencies are easily maxed and have far less use, weapons have less base stats.
90% decision making on how you build your character is done before you've even played the game.
Arcanum>NWN>Fallout>PoE>BG ( fact! )

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I found PoE2 to be a BIG improvement on PoE1, personally.

I had great fun with my Marauder - that's for sure. They also got rid of the stupid rest mechanic - and made the feedback during combat a LOT more clear and visible.

Even better, they implemented the best AI scripting since Dragon Age Origins.

Overall, it's one of the best real-time combat systems I've tried - and I find the character system very good, if still slightly curtailed in terms of fun experimentation.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Frankly, sandbox games only work with higher-level characters when there's an inane amount of level scaling, which inevitably degrades the immersion. I still want to see traditional approaches used to create immersive higher-level adventures.

No. Sandbox products work for players with imagination and/or personality. That makes them able to use the products properly.
Sandbox products do not work for players who drain content spoonfed to them.

 

[Terry]

I quite agree with Dungeons and Dragons not being the best of the best, but they get a lot of credit for being the first giant in the genre. For me, Chivalry and Sorcery, GURPS, and Traveller were superior role playing games back in the day when I played with my gang.

Damn Ya I miss a good traveler RPG. Noting like a good FGMP to ruin your day

 

[rjshae]

No. Sandbox products work for players with imagination and/or personality. That makes them able to use the products properly.
Sandbox products do not work for players who drain content spoonfed to them.

Pretty narrow minded stuff here. No, sandbox products work well when they are well written with good exploration, interesting encounters, no respawn points, and limited level scaling. For high level encounters though, it would make sense that you have to travel much further to find such opponents. That's why sandbox games are more limited there, and end up acting like area-based games via instant travel.

 

[purpleblob]

Arcanum>NWN>Fallout>PoE>BG ( fact! )

Sure, that's your opinion and I'm simply going to say, let's agree to disagree

Oh, and one final note. There is a difference between borrowing and uninspiring.

 

[Carnifex]

I'm still looking forward to Pillars of Eternity two at some point, but knowing how the expansions will probably stagger up and drop in the next year or so, I'll be holding off for a while yet. I like to hear good things about it, though!

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I'm still looking forward to Pillars of Eternity two at some point, but knowing how the expansions will probably stagger up and drop in the next year or so, I'll be holding off for a while yet. I like to hear good things about it, though!

I was very surprised at how much I liked it.

I think I have around 40 hours or so in it, but I got distracted - and it's the kind of game that really needs a week off, at least, to fully enjoy.

I feel comfortable saying that all the changes combined has made the game truly excellent, far surpassing the first one.

I also prefer the writing to the deliberately opaque and pretentious stuff in the first game.

 

[Thrasher]

Also NASA is open again.

It never closed. Beware of Faux news.