Grimoire - Indiegogo Update

[Ripper]

don't care what he has said to be honest, have way more important things to do.

Well, don't let us keep you from them.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I played what he released to beta testers a while back….don't care what he has said to be honest, have way more important things to do.

For once I agree with rune_74. He didn't ask for any money from anyone until a few years ago, when he gradually realized putting the finishing touches on such a monster would be significantly more complex than envisioned. Then again this is not different from video game development or Kickstarter in general.

People diss Cleve because they want to be bullies. I wish they had the honesty to admit it. It reveals their conceit.

It's sad when someone's admittedly off-color opinions overshadow his work, which is the most complex and fascinating blobber ever designed. But when you look at things it's hypocritical, because I would be sure that many of them like, for instance, HP Lovecraft's stories, when Lovecraft himself had many extreme and demeaning opinions (including toward French Canadians like me). Yet no one would deny his extremely significant contributions toward modern culture. Even I who do not like his nihilistic ideologies of the world recognize it.

Rune_74 here has realized that there is actually a very high quality game that is coming and it matters above all. It should be what matters above all for people who call themselves gamers. If you like Wizardry or Bard's Tale, it's Wizardry or Bard's Tale on steroids, with the creativity of a 100 games! If there is one thing that cannot be denied about Cleve, is that he is a very brilliant and creative mind, and so playing his dream game promises to definitely be a fascinating experience.

 

[Ripper]

No, HHR. I see very little bullying around here. For some reason, people like yourself always seem to feel victimised, and utterly oblivious to their own aggressive, disrespectful behaviour that attracts the negative attention in the first place. If people like you and Cleve don't like the heat, don't spew the hellfire.

If the Lord God is just, merciful and fair, (and he is all these things many millions of times over) then the day has come for him to release his wrath on this greasy abhorrent prevert pit called the 'Kwa. Those Sodomites are ready for cookin' up some heavenly barbecue.

That's one of Cleve's. Shall I dig up one of yours for a matching pair?

 

[DArtagnan]

I want to be a bully? That's quite an ambition

 

[pibbur who]

…
People diss Cleve because they want to be bullies. I wish they had the honesty to admit it. It reveals their conceit.
…

I certainly don't. And for the record, I believe it when people say it's a great game. But I have serious doubts about the release, considering repeated broken promises over many, many years. Seems like you don't take that into consideration. I have a hard time understanding why.

pibbur who thinks maybe mr. Blakemore should have more honesty regarding his release promises

 

[Roq]

I certainly don't. And for the record, I believe it when people say it's a great game. But I have serious doubts about the release, considering repeated broken promises over many, many years. Seems like you don't take that into consideration. I have a hard time understanding why.

pibbur who thinks maybe mr. Blakemore should have more honesty regarding his release promises

You could say the same about every Kickstarter game so far. I can't think of a single one, that I backed, that released when they said it would. And how late was Diablo 3 - in man years? Similarly I don't imagine that CB intentionally misleads about the release date - it is just that if you are working on a project that size and don't have some optimism you probably wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

According to his son, who has tested the game and isn't as eccentric as his dad, the game is in quite a good place and could be released. Maybe though after all this time and with the very critical internet community there is an element of apprehension in actually releasing the game and that might be why CB is reluctant to let go of it.

 

[pibbur who]

You could say the same about every Kickstarter game so far. I can't think of a single one, that I backed, that released when they said it would.

IMO there is a difference between being late, and repeatedly promising and breaking release dates for - how long has it been - 10++ years?

..-Similarly I don't imagine that CB intentionally misleads about the release date - it is just that if you are working on a project that size and don't have some optimism you probably wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Yes, I guess it was a bit far-fetched claiming he lied, I shouldn have said that. But not more far-fetched than HHR's claim that all his critics are bullies, being dishonest by not admitting it.

According to his son, who has tested the game and isn't as eccentric as his dad, the game is in quite a good place and could be released. Maybe though after all this time and with the very critical internet community there is an element of apprehension in actually releasing the game and that might be why CB is reluctant to let go of it.

Problem is that it has allegedly been ready for release /98-99% finished all this time.

I'm pretty sure that "the very critical internet community" is most of all the result of these factors and thus something he has brought upon himself. I don't know what's keeping him and I'll not accuse him of anything. But have to admit after all these years, I do find it hard to take him seriously, when it comes to Grimoire, that is.

pibbur who chooses to disregard other aspects connected to mr Blakemore. And as said before, he will be pleasantly surprised if Grimoire gets released anytime soon (whatever "soon" means).

 

[DArtagnan]

I think I'll wait for the enhanced edition

 

[zahratustra]

You think you will live that long DArt?

 

[DArtagnan]

It's right around the corner!

 

[Hastar]

It's right around the corner!

So is Gods wrath.

 

[pibbur who]

... coming to take me away ha-ha he-he -ho-ho….

pibbur who claims to be number 13, not 14. And who is not Napoleon either

 

[Humanity has risen!]

You could say the same about every Kickstarter game so far. I can't think of a single one, that I backed, that released when they said it would. And how late was Diablo 3 - in man years? Similarly I don't imagine that CB intentionally misleads about the release date - it is just that if you are working on a project that size and don't have some optimism you probably wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

According to his son, who has tested the game and isn't as eccentric as his dad, the game is in quite a good place and could be released. Maybe though after all this time and with the very critical internet community there is an element of apprehension in actually releasing the game and that might be why CB is reluctant to let go of it.

You're hitting the nail on the head. It's mostly a matter of tribalism. Because he has very strong political opinions that are contrary to their own they try to find every good reason to paint him as the worst person ever and a pathological liar… every bad trait in the book. I don't care about it, however I don't like double standards and "bandwagon cynicysm".

Over the years I have learned that when there is a discussion over the Internet where people are laughing and being snarky at a single individual and try to give themselves rationalizations for doing so, it means something is wrong. It means that since there is no rational way to get a point across against somebody, petty mob behavior is needed.

There are indeed a lot of Kickstarter projects that have been very late, or games like Age of Decadence where the reaction is totally different. Personally I think a lot of what he says is cruel and needlessly antagonistic, but you do not see people taking the wacked statements that many indie developers have said on Twitter and use it as reasons to bash their games when we talk about their games here.

Everything should be judged objectively based on its merits. If you're a gamer that what you should do. Why let other factors get in the way of pure fun?

 

[Ripper]

You're hitting the nail on the head. It's mostly a matter of tribalism. Because he has very strong political opinions that are contrary to their own they try to find every good reason to paint him as the worst person ever and a pathological liar… every bad trait in the book. I don't care about it, however I don't like double standards and "bandwagon cynicysm".

Over the years I have learned that when there is a discussion over the Internet where people are laughing and being snarky at a single individual and try to give themselves rationalizations for doing so, it means something is wrong. It means that since there is no rational way to get a point across against somebody, petty mob behavior is needed.

You're a bit confused about people's position, I think.

For myself, if the guy releases a game and it's good, I'll have no problem enjoying it. However, in the twenty years of 'development', he has constructed a personal nuclear bunker, not merely because he fears a nuclear disaster, but because he is praying to God to rain down fire on America because it is full of perverts, homosexuals, and inferior races. He claims to be descended from a superior species of Neanderthal, and that most people lack the intelligence to understand what he understands.

He does not merely push back release dates in the way many studios do. He gives absolute guarantees that "only a few micro-issues remain" and that his release date is certain. Then he disappears for another couple of years, saying almost nothing about the game, but posting daily deranged unpleasantness on his blog. Then he does it all over again.

Now, when reasonable people try to make the best of this mess by taking the piss and having a laugh about it, you try to cast them a bandwagon of bullies? Are you Minister of Information on your planet?

 

[Wisdom]

This board has seen so many threads on value vs money. Phone games vs PC. $0.99 apps. Vs $90 collector editions.

With this in mind, Clive has MORE than provided me with entertainment value even if the first IGG never is fulfilled. Was it presented in the form originally expected? Nope. Still, value for money, i have been entertained.

 

[Dez]

At first I thought that all these comments about Cleve's bunker were just jokes, but indeed, the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

 

[fadedc]

You're a bit confused about people's position, I think.

For myself, if the guy releases a game and it's good, I'll have no problem enjoying it. However, in the twenty years of 'development', he has constructed a personal nuclear bunker, not merely because he fears a nuclear disaster, but because he is praying to God to rain down fire on America because it is full of perverts, homosexuals, and inferior races. He claims to be descended from a superior species of Neanderthal, and that most people lack the intelligence to understand what he understands.

He does not merely push back release dates in the way many studios do. He gives absolute guarantees that "only a few micro-issues remain" and that his release date is certain. Then he disappears for another couple of years, saying almost nothing about the game, but posting daily deranged unpleasantness on his blog. Then he does it all over again.

Now, when reasonable people try to make the best of this mess by taking the piss and having a laugh about it, you try to cast them a bandwagon of bullies? Are you Minister of Information on your planet?

That sums it up pretty well. I don't really care that Cleve is a white supremacist. I mean I care in the fact that I think he's an awful person, but it won't stop me from buying his game, if it were ever released and actually good. Although some of the things he says are so out of touch with reality and clearly untrue (and sometimes blatantly made up) that it makes me doubt how much I can take seriously anything else from him.

But that's not why I am skeptical about the game. I am skeptical because nothing has changed in 20 years. It's always been a few bug fixes away from release. There is absolutely nothing that's different now then the first time he made that claim, and the 100+ other times over the years. You can't remotely compare it to other kickstarters, and other games, which were delayed but gave honest updates along the way.

 

[Roq]

But that's not why I am skeptical about the game. I am skeptical because nothing has changed in 20 years. It's always been a few bug fixes away from release. There is absolutely nothing that's different now then the first time he made that claim, and the 100+ other times over the years. You can't remotely compare it to other kickstarters, and other games, which were delayed but gave honest updates along the way.

But something did change - a demo and a "super" demo were released, which showed that nearly all the mechanisms for a Wiz 6-7 style RPG were working. That is pretty significant, it suggests that he is (or at least was) intending to make a full release at some stage. CB may be somewhat eccentric, but it would be another sort of weirdness to spend all that effort if you were secretly intending to flush the whole thing down the toilet.

The other thing is that the game as planned is absolutely huge - in that context it is no real surprise that he keeps finding stuff to delay the release, he's no doubt trawling through code that he can't even remember having written. Maybe the whole thing will turn out to be a massive labour of Sisyphus...

 

[fadedc]

But something did change - a demo and a "super" demo were released, which showed that nearly all the mechanisms for a Wiz 6-7 style RPG were working. That is pretty significant, it suggests that he is (or at least was) intending to make a full release at some stage. CB may be somewhat eccentric, but it would be another sort of weirdness to spend all that effort if you were secretly intending to flush the whole thing down the toilet.

That's actually not remotely new. About 15 years ago there was a demo as well, which I played. It was remarkably similar to the more recent demo, including having some of the same problems. Perhaps it does show that at least at some point Cleve intended to release a game, but it doesn't change my statement that there is no reason to think that things are any different now than they were 20 years ago when we first found out that the game was just a few bugs away from release.

 

[pibbur who]

That's actually not remotely new. About 15 years ago there was a demo as well, which I played. It was remarkably similar to the more recent demo, including having some of the same problems. Perhaps it does show that at least at some point Cleve intended to release a game, but it doesn't change my statement that there is no reason to think that things are any different now than they were 20 years ago when we first found out that the game was just a few bugs away from release.

This. And your post before it. My points exactly, but I 've spent much time thinking about how to say it precisely, now I don't have to. Thanks.

The sheer number of broken release date promises (guarantees) is an important issue concerning the release of the game, and one that for instance HHR has carefully avoided addressing. For some reason.

Pibbur who is convinced that the game is good, but not entirely convinced about other things