PC won't start

[pibbur who]

…
-
Unfortunately this is a bit nebulous and I can't give you first hand feedback on your specific choices. I could read reviews and user feedback et all on the mb but you can do that just as easily.

No, no. It's great. You've given me things to thing about and check. And yes, I can/will google for reviews and feedback.

BTW: I have time to wait, I don't have to get a new system now.

pibbur who is grateful.

 

[Ripper]

Well AMD did not really have a serious meltdown security issue - one of the support chips did have a minor issue and I believe it has been fixed. The ryzen is a seriously good chip on paper and people feedback and it has some real benefits over intel esp if you use the gpu (which you don't). My only issue with the amd solution is finding a good mb. Historically in operand and thunderbird days the mb chipsets were always suspect and third party - in the end nforce4 was pretty decent. If the mb is good then I would go with the amd solution in this case esp since it has fewer security issues.
-
For me personally in a gaming system I would have no issue with an amd solution but I would need to put effort into picking the right mb. For a server I would be a little bit more concern since I do somethings that is not main-stream and therefore are more likely to tickle issues.
-
Unfortunately this is a bit nebulous and I can't give you first hand feedback on your specific choices. I could read reviews and user feedback et all on the mb but you can do that just as easily.

AMD are still relying on software mitigations in the OS to protect against Spectre and the new SSB vulnerabilities. It's true that more specific vulnerabilities were found for Intel CPUs, but, knowing that this security design flaw exists, new exploits that affect either manufacturer are a definite risk; while the hardware flaw is there, there could be a long line of ways of of attacking it.

I would definitely wait until revised CPUs come along.

 

[pibbur who]

Seems like the sensible thing to do is waiting. And since I'm in nor hurry, I think I will do exactly that.

pibbur who will come back to the watch for advice when it's time to spend money. On hardware. Computer hardware. Components.

 

[Kordanor]

Can't go into specific comparison of the two options either, but want to add to what "you" said ("you" did wait for that, didn't you? )

Avoid boards with killer ethernet

Yes and no. Killer ethernet should be fine. But: You shouldn't install their software as this can cause issues with games now and then.

Regarding Audio:
If you are not using a dolby surround system, I actually recommend to use an external soundcard. Everything in the PC is extremely vulnerable to interferences. Ideally you have your soundcard on your desk/ away from other electronics.
Don't expect this to be very expensive. You can get the sabrent usb soundcard for under 10$. Basically makes the soundcard in your system obsolete.
If you are using a doly surround system you'd need a different solution though.

Also water cooling is not required for overclocking. Good air cooled systems can be as effective.

 

[Pladio]

AMD are still relying on software mitigations in the OS to protect against Spectre and the new SSB vulnerabilities. It's true that more specific vulnerabilities were found for Intel CPUs, but, knowing that this security design flaw exists, new exploits that affect either manufacturer are a definite risk; while the hardware flaw is there, there could be a long line of ways of of attacking it.

I would definitely wait until revised CPUs come along.

How do we know the new version won't have the same or similar problem?

When do we expect the newer chips to come on the market since 8th gen is relatively new, isn't it?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[you]

Well he can always try the internal sound system before springing for an external one.
-
I personally prefer to use mid-level headphones (sien 555); and doubly would be a waste for myself.

 

[you]

As I said earlier in this thread intel has promised a released hardware fixed cpu by end of q3 (of course they might not meet their stated timeline but there actual range was end of q2 to mid q3).

How do we know the new version won't have the same or similar problem?

When do we expect the newer chips to come on the market since 8th gen is relatively new, isn't it?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[pibbur who]

I mostly use headphones, and actually have three audio sources

1. Internal Asus SupremeFX (Realtek)
2. HyperX 7.1 (USB)
3. Corsair Wireless 7.1 (USB)

Happy with all of them. Don't plan on installing a separate soundcard.

When not using headphones it's the Realtek connected to a Logitech 5.1 set of speakers.

pibbur

 

[Kordanor]

Cool. Yeah, in that case you can pretty much ignore the Mobo soundcard.
Just don't get the cheapest thing you can get, and in case of intel buy the z370 chipset and you should be fine.

 

[Ripper]

How do we know the new version won't have the same or similar problem?

When do we expect the newer chips to come on the market since 8th gen is relatively new, isn't it?

Well, of course we can never be sure that there won't be another bad design in the future. But, what we have at the moment is a bit of a facepalm moment among CPU manufacturers, that their chips have a fundamental security design flaw.

It's a bit like the design flaw of the Death Star - you might plug up one exhaust port that leads directly to the highly unstable main reactor, but you really need to go back to the drawing board to make sure the rebels can't blow it up so easily.

 

[you]

There will always be new security flaws in both hardware and software. But hey it isn't just your PC with the flaws; cars and toasters have issues not to mention Alexa.

 

[pibbur who]

Now I'm tempted to get a new PC NOW!!!!

pibbur who expects to get a new PSU from his pusher today, and who does (not) hope that things work after that.

 

[Ripper]

There will always be new security flaws in both hardware and software. But hey it isn't just your PC with the flaws; cars and toasters have issues not to mention Alexa.

True, and I wouldn't recommend infesting one's home with highly insecure IoT devices, either. They may be trivial in themselves, but hacked devices can do some creepy things, and become agents for attackers to perform more serious mischief inside your network. Cars are also a playground for hackers, but not much we can do about that.

But, to me, that fact that security issues will always occur is not an argument against avoiding hardware with established and serious fundamental design flaws.

 

[Pladio]

True, and I wouldn't recommend infesting one's home with highly insecure IoT devices, either. They may be trivial in themselves, but hacked devices can do some creepy things, and become agents for attackers to perform more serious mischief inside your network. Cars are also a playground for hackers, but not much we can do about that.

But, to me, that fact that security issues will always occur is not an argument against avoiding hardware with established and serious fundamental design flaws.

I understand.

Does this mean that the new chips will essentially be 9th gen or simply rebadged 8th gen?

I. E. Do you expect noticeable performance upgrades too?

If so then waiting until they come out certainly makes a lot of sense.



Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[you]

Not sure; I was trying to find that out as I want to update my server this winter. icy lake is suppose to be 9th generation but it uses a new socket type (again). It was originally scheduled to come out late 2018 or early 2019.
-
This article suggest there will be new 8th generation chips with the fix:
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/15/intel-chip-redesign-spectre-meltdown-flaws/

But i dont' know if it will have new part #. My personal concern with ice lake is that intel likes to clear out old parts from the retail chain and this burned me with haswell refresh when I moved to itx. Since ice lake will have a new socket z390 won't last long and parts will vanished fast.
-
Contrast with AMD which has promised to use the same socket till 2020.
-
(for the record my server is still sandy bridge)

 

[Caddy]

I just get whatever I can find in the junk pile at work. It's a pretty nice junk pile though.

 

[pibbur who]

OK. Got the new PSU, installed it and …. and …. oh boy!!!!

Didn't work..

I did everything from scratch, removing the MB, verifying that the offsets (if that's what they're called) were in the correct position, and nothing else were in between. Added the necessary cables and connectors. Without luck.

One thing remains: Removing and reinserting the CPU itself. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow, but for all practical purposes I think the diagnosis is clear.

pibbur who's got the Norwegian blues.

 

[you]

Hum. Would be nice to know why things didn't work but that might be difficult to figure out. Mostly just curious.

 

[pibbur who]

Decisions, decisions…

Some background facts:

• I plan on replacing my current Windows PC early next year (self built). Yet another present to myself, this time celebrating retirement.
• I will then use my current PC for Linux.
• I want a Linux machine now, and was going to use my Olde Machine for Linux as a temporary solution, until next year.
• That option is no longer viable, since the Olde Machine is no longer viable.

So I have 3 options:

1. Wait.
2. Buy a cheap upgrade package (MB, CPU, RAM) for Linux now. Do the windows PC upgrade (and final Linux upgrade) as originally planned.
3. Reschedule my next year windows PC upgrade from next year to NOW!

Option 3 is definitely more tempting. Now, there's the problem with the speculative execution vulnerabilities, which upcoming CPUs are supposed to fix. So, as some watchers have suggested, it makes sense to wait. But what if I in stead just replace the CPU when the more secure ones arrive? It actually won't cost me more than going for option 2, and I get a better equipped Linux machine with less hassle.

BTW, I'm considering going for the Ryzen CPU, partially because the AMD CPUS are to some degree backwards compatible regarding MBs. And AMD claims that the Ryzens are less affected by the vulnerability than the Intels.

Decisions…….

pibbur who doesn't want to, but who promises he will listen to advice.

PS. No matter what I do, I only need to buy CPU, MB and RAM. I already have the other required components. DS.

 

[Kordanor]

What do you actually intend to do with the Linux machine?
If it doesn't need to be fast, there are "extremely" cheap options as well.