Review of Mass Effect: Andromeda

[Mustawd]

Perhaps someone can explain to me what this has to do with Maylanders review. If not, I think it is safe to say that it can be (re)moved.

Didn't the review talk about not being able to make a normal attractive PC? Pretty sure opinions on that are pretty relevant.

 

[Myrthos]

I was referring to, amongst others, the codex references

 

[Dasale]

Codex? Ugly? Unattractive peoples? Seems stick strictly to topic for me.

 

[luj1]

Myrthos why does any mention of the Codex make your blood boil? Childhood memories?

 

[Myrthos]

It is not related to the Codex by itself, it is about trying to stay on topic and add something to the discussion relevant to the topic.

 

[Dasale]

Another issue with the first few hours, is that it lacks saving options. It seemingly uses a "check point" system, though this is inaccurate (auto saving is triggered by conversations, profile changes, combat and so on).

Savepoints system is awful, that it's unclear save points instead of clear check points, make it even worse.

I totally disagree it's first few hours, it's during all important parts of the game. And it's not just an unclear system, and savepoints too distant, it's also a lot of bugs of non spawning. And don't try trick the system if you don't want end with desert parts when you load and spawning break.

Last section like that I played was enemy electricity central in first planet. Not only it was ridiculous how long it is between two savepoints, but with all the troubles I had I noticed again bugs of spawning, and worse the artificial difficulty increase coming from long chain of combats without save, forced me lowdown difficulty to boredom. At end, despite I had some good combats, that overall the progression was too basic but ok inside context of combats, I still end with the general feeling of a part half tedious, half good, when without those non saves I probably would have felt it was a great part.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

So there is diffculty in this product. Tremendous piece of news.

 

[Dasale]

So there is diffculty in this product. Tremendous piece of news.

Ok I am lame at those games. Sorry but where is my party and my pauses? Companions tend steal me the best cover spots, and control them (a bit) during real time combats is too much for me. Well I don't complain they are in combats, but that it's not really party anymore.

Anyway I doubt I alone suffer of this problem. Im' playing Hardcore and it would be really fun for me, die sometime but it's ok and it means I don't faceroll the combats. But parts with long series of combats and no save, force player like me to low down difficulty in those part.

But that's not the only problem of those savepoints, sometimes and not only during long introduction, they include long exploration parts, and it's ridiculous to have to redo them because of a combat lost.

EDIT: I think they put an extra effort on difficulty settings, Hardcore is cool and overall not that easy, Insane seems rather challenging from posts I read. And Normal isn't totally boring. And Story should do the work when you are totally bored to try again finish a boss after a long series of combats with no save.

 

[Dasale]

Gameplay
In terms of overall gameplay, Mass Effect: Andromeda is by far the best in the series, offering greater variety than the others in terms of character progression, crafting, research and loot.

I'll endorse the devil advocate outfit, some raging, now cold steel, against the stupid no saves and saves bugs of the game, provide me the full justification to do it, a sort of right of justice as I can't insult some designer face to face.

It doesn't mean I'll lie and manipulate, just that in current mood, I'm excellent at finding weakness of the game and quite incompetent to find its good points. So let start on this base.

So MEA best gameplay of the series? From what point of view? Quantity? Apart for quantity I don't see what you mean. It has the more developed and more complete RPG gameplay, that is clear. That it's better gameplay is much less clear.

So the arguments of the lawyer, I add some DAI comments as I quoted you used the review opportunity to bash it and in my opinion on a wrong element, but that won't be for this post:

- Party building, I don't know if it's the design of a soft evolution of the series from party to single character, but the point is it's the worse in the series. Companions building feel too identical, and offer too few choices. DAI just humiliates MEA on that aspect, adult game versus phone game.

- Character building: It's not by changing a class system into skills system that you increase the amount of choices. I'll pick few examples, in DAE skills system it makes no sense to pick a build with the only weapon training for pistols. Another example, my current non sniper build just picked a sniper rifle and rules with it and many contexts. Even if for sure main tools are other stuff because he is build for something else. Obviously DAI is a lot deeper and more diversified than MEA on that aspect.

- Quests, that's a complex subject involving mechanics, progression, story, characters. For sure for quantity, MEA beat any single game until end of time. That don't make them fun to play. In term of mechanics and by exploiting a superior exploration and terrain design, many get better mechanics than ME series is used to. But for most the progression is lame a basic, a ton are fedex postal service quests, and alas until you have tried do one you can't guess those that are better and many are better but far from majority. It's possible the massive amount is involving too much distraction, and the the writing is a large culprit, but the point is many are just pale and like to tale you busy. If I just pick the DAI pictures quests, every single is much better than all secondary quests I played for now.

- Combats:
I read again and again that they are better, and I don't see where. The style is more like Borderlands 2 and Far Cry 3, but no way it matches the diversity of BL2, and players tend be blinded on the repetitivity of systems as FC3, I quoted finally last Ubi game using this approach get bashed on that, at least eyes open, it was time.

No save system is just lame, not only because of current bugs from load and no spawning generating empty areas, but also many save points are stupidly distant to each other, for a fake difficulty increase pushing to lower to boredom difficulty in some specific parts.

From combats party real time with pause it's now much more single character with henchmen, on my tablets it's no surprise they can't be better than past ME.

Best combats of MEA are probably best of the series (still no match to best party combats of DAI), but it's not that many, and many can be damaged by the save points system, and even in special areas there are too many that feel like trash combats. The problem of such combat system is they could generate more random, but combats lack of design, and overall all past ME games have better combats.

So nope many points to drag down DAE combats, they aren't bad, not at all, but they aren't better than past ME.

- Crafting: It's nothing different than DAI, plenty possibilities, at end it's massive crafting not fun crafting. Tyranny magic system, here a great crafting. Tyranny crafting system, here a good crafting. Is MEA crafting better and more fun than previous ME? In my opinion no, just massive. I'm pretty sure it's a lot a matter of player type. Abstract math type will enjoy such MEA/DAI crafting, players that are more "wow" type will find it a boredom. Moreover the awful crap UI for crafting in MEA makes it such a boredom, I don't remember it was that awful in DAI (the UI, for the crafting for sure it is).

- Companions: MEA flux management seems interesting, alas the quality is hard to find. I won't say it's bad, just that the gameplay aspect of this is a lot better in DA2 and DAI, a lot more fun and interesting and capturing much better the attention. A good aspect for MEA is companions speaking during adventuring, the small talk between them is ok, I have seen better, but their intervention during dialog is a good aspect, it's also an approach I enjoyed in Tyranny.

I have more insulting for designers, but I'll conclude to quickly list gameplay aspects I agree to find better in MEA than in past ME:
- Exploration and progression: Past ME are no match and I include ME1. It does some aspect better than DAI/Skyrim/TW3 but it's no match overall, but I'll keep that topic for another post, in short a lot of good work for a result lacking of soul and wow.
- Equipments: Items design is weak and UI is boring, but the increased amount of possibilities certainly makes it superior to all past ME, but not DAI.
- Drops: The series never been good in that matter, let say it's a bit better overall, still weak in comparison of DAI.
- Collecting: First non boring collecting I have seen in AAA Rpg since a long time, probably Gothic 2 if it can be considered AAA. It's a sum of good eye spot design not requiring any boring scanning (DAI fail for example, but ton of RPG in same bag) and no boring respawn breaking all fun.
- Find stuff, spot stuff: First coherent gameplay I have seen since a long time. Great system from good desing for eyes spoting, good hints, very good scan system, care to reward players with curiosity to check around the corner, care to design obstacles and difficult or mildly hidden paths, more. Not the best gameplay ever, but surprisingly good for the era, as it tend be total crap with modern RPG.
- There are other elements, but ok let stop.

 

[joxer]

No manual saving during main missions is a bad choice. While I have to agree on it you may easily adapt to it and besides who on Earth plays games on insane difficulty since the moment those are installed? Especially a reviewer - it's reviewer's job to judge if "normal" is too easy or too hard. Or too boring or something.

But I came to post because of another reason. Postpatch I've kicked a new game.

1. Faces are vastly improved, there are still some quirks, but why this most probably postprocessing wasn't included in the release version is a mystery to me. My best guess is that QA did a rubbish job.

2. I just finished Eos. Everything except the kett base and architect (means I was on Aya, radiation cleared so I came back to explore and clear leftovers). Trashmob respawns are now completely different. There is no frequent Kett ship adding them endlessly everywhere and some kett camps are completely removed from the map. What gives? I was able to gather every needed task objective in just one runthrough instead of revisiting them all over and over hoping random generator will finally spawn those somewhere!

3. While it wasn't stated in patch log, at least one quest got fixed. Previously, there was no conclusion to sidequest of destroying two kett posts, now, instead of marking it automatically solved, upon doing it, you can report to questgiver and get a dialogue he didn't previously have. Also, a new task of gathering remnant data cores appeared, this is not some unannounced DLC, it's a quest that due to a bug didn't appear at all in the release version (I didn't know this but reading EA answers some people actually bought Prima guide and the quest is listed inside it).

None of these are gamechanging material, but significant improvements definetly are. It's always nice to see when a company does not go nfficial_patching leave_it_to_modders Bethesda strategy.

After someone reads a review, check if it's based on the release version as postpatch the game got better.
Also, ignore Jim Sterling's ME bugs video. With actual bugs (of which some are already patched) he added Cora making a biotic charge on a trashmob thinking it's a bug too while it's not. Jim's thoughts on industry in general are still great IMO, but he shouldn't mark as bug something that isn't a bug at all.

 

[Dasale]

The patch changed nothing to the saves, seeing the problems of load and spawning, the weird no save triggers and save triggers, it smell a global system full of problems, if it ever get patch this will take a long time.

I fail adapt to this save system, for me the big combats are very fun at Hardcore, just good at Normal. Alas at second enemy citadel (another planet) it's been the same troubles. Had to switch to Normal just to reach first save point, and at end get killed by the boss. And had to do final part thankfully shorter this time, at Story, didn't bother with Easy. Overall it's still good time not great time, if I hadn't the troubles with the no save sections, my fun would probably be higher.

In my opinion there's no point to play it completionist. It's perhaps more doable than for DAI, but it's the same danger to be burned. But the game gives no reason to do it, you get control of first planet, 100%, a long time before to do everything. Great design detail decision. In fact there's ton of great design detail decision, but for me, for now, it' just a good play, not a great play.

 

[Damian]

Also, ignore Jim Sterling's ME bugs video. With actual bugs (of which some are already patched) he added Cora making a biotic charge on a trashmob thinking it's a bug too while it's not. Jim's thoughts on industry in general are still great IMO, but he shouldn't mark as bug something that isn't a bug at all.

Jim Sterling's whole livelihood is based on creating controversy. I cant take anything he says at face value.

 

[Maylander]

So MEA best gameplay of the series? From what point of view? Quantity? Apart for quantity I don't see what you mean. It has the more developed and more complete RPG gameplay, that is clear. That it's better gameplay is much less clear.

So the arguments of the lawyer, I add some DAI comments as I quoted you used the review opportunity to bash it and in my opinion on a wrong element, but that won't be for this post:

- Party building, I don't know if it's the design of a soft evolution of the series from party to single character, but the point is it's the worse in the series. Companions building feel too identical, and offer too few choices. DAI just humiliates MEA on that aspect, adult game versus phone game.

- Character building: It's not by changing a class system into skills system that you increase the amount of choices. I'll pick few examples, in DAE skills system it makes no sense to pick a build with the only weapon training for pistols. Another example, my current non sniper build just picked a sniper rifle and rules with it and many contexts. Even if for sure main tools are other stuff because he is build for something else. Obviously DAI is a lot deeper and more diversified than MEA on that aspect.

- Quests, that's a complex subject involving mechanics, progression, story, characters. For sure for quantity, MEA beat any single game until end of time. That don't make them fun to play. In term of mechanics and by exploiting a superior exploration and terrain design, many get better mechanics than ME series is used to. But for most the progression is lame a basic, a ton are fedex postal service quests, and alas until you have tried do one you can't guess those that are better and many are better but far from majority. It's possible the massive amount is involving too much distraction, and the the writing is a large culprit, but the point is many are just pale and like to tale you busy. If I just pick the DAI pictures quests, every single is much better than all secondary quests I played for now.

- Combats:
I read again and again that they are better, and I don't see where. The style is more like Borderlands 2 and Far Cry 3, but no way it matches the diversity of BL2, and players tend be blinded on the repetitivity of systems as FC3, I quoted finally last Ubi game using this approach get bashed on that, at least eyes open, it was time.

No save system is just lame, not only because of current bugs from load and no spawning generating empty areas, but also many save points are stupidly distant to each other, for a fake difficulty increase pushing to lower to boredom difficulty in some specific parts.

From combats party real time with pause it's now much more single character with henchmen, on my tablets it's no surprise they can't be better than past ME.

Best combats of MEA are probably best of the series (still no match to best party combats of DAI), but it's not that many, and many can be damaged by the save points system, and even in special areas there are too many that feel like trash combats. The problem of such combat system is they could generate more random, but combats lack of design, and overall all past ME games have better combats.

So nope many points to drag down DAE combats, they aren't bad, not at all, but they aren't better than past ME.

- Crafting: It's nothing different than DAI, plenty possibilities, at end it's massive crafting not fun crafting. Tyranny magic system, here a great crafting. Tyranny crafting system, here a good crafting. Is MEA crafting better and more fun than previous ME? In my opinion no, just massive. I'm pretty sure it's a lot a matter of player type. Abstract math type will enjoy such MEA/DAI crafting, players that are more "wow" type will find it a boredom. Moreover the awful crap UI for crafting in MEA makes it such a boredom, I don't remember it was that awful in DAI (the UI, for the crafting for sure it is).

- Companions: MEA flux management seems interesting, alas the quality is hard to find. I won't say it's bad, just that the gameplay aspect of this is a lot better in DA2 and DAI, a lot more fun and interesting and capturing much better the attention. A good aspect for MEA is companions speaking during adventuring, the small talk between them is ok, I have seen better, but their intervention during dialog is a good aspect, it's also an approach I enjoyed in Tyranny.

All this is well and good, but all your examples are from Dragon Age and similar. I never said MEA has better gameplay than Dragon Age. I never compared the gameplay. I specifically mentioned the Mass Effect series in that regard, so which gameplay (Mass Effect 1, 2 or 3) is better than MEA (overall, not just aspects) and why? Saving is one aspect. Being able to tell companions to use specific abilities is another. Anything else, and does it add up to an overall better gameplay experience?

I have more insulting for designers, but I'll conclude to quickly list gameplay aspects I agree to find better in MEA than in past ME:
- Exploration and progression: Past ME are no match and I include ME1. It does some aspect better than DAI/Skyrim/TW3 but it's no match overall, but I'll keep that topic for another post, in short a lot of good work for a result lacking of soul and wow.
- Equipments: Items design is weak and UI is boring, but the increased amount of possibilities certainly makes it superior to all past ME, but not DAI.
- Drops: The series never been good in that matter, let say it's a bit better overall, still weak in comparison of DAI.
- Collecting: First non boring collecting I have seen in AAA Rpg since a long time, probably Gothic 2 if it can be considered AAA. It's a sum of good eye spot design not requiring any boring scanning (DAI fail for example, but ton of RPG in same bag) and no boring respawn breaking all fun.
- Find stuff, spot stuff: First coherent gameplay I have seen since a long time. Great system from good desing for eyes spoting, good hints, very good scan system, care to reward players with curiosity to check around the corner, care to design obstacles and difficult or mildly hidden paths, more. Not the best gameplay ever, but surprisingly good for the era, as it tend be total crap with modern RPG.
- There are other elements, but ok let stop.

I certainly think MEA is behind both Skyrim and TW3 in terms of exploration, but it was ahead of DAI for me. By a fair margin too.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Anyway I doubt I alone suffer of this problem.

Controlling companions in combat is not necessary to overcome fights. Playing solo on a correct build is enough on the highest level of difficulty.

 

[joxer]

Controlling companions in combat is not necessary to overcome fights. Playing solo on a correct build is enough on the highest level of difficulty.

A correct build? Not really. Arm with some patience for the highest difficulty.
http://answers.ea.com/t5/Game-Information/Insanity-132-Kett-Cardinal-30-Rockets-Later/td-p/5993458

But okay, you didn't play the game yet, pro reviews are all halfarsed as usual and streamers are (surprisingly?) useless.

 

[Dasale]

Controlling companions in combat is not necessary to overcome fights. Playing solo on a correct build is enough on the highest level of difficulty.

Not necessary? Are you saying me that this is possible? I mean possible and useful? Combats are too dynamic, it's more a fake feature to prepare transition to single player. Eventually you can use it a few time to save them when they expose themselves too much, but no way for some tactical position, that won't be tactical 2 seconds after.

I'm sure it's possible, and it's possible my build isn't good enough, that's not the problem. Combats are fun for me at a degree of intensity at which I'll die a few time, and the no save sections are most often too long, at least in enemy citadels, this force me to lower difficulty to a level I find less fun.

I wonder if it's the no save system that pollute my play, I have good time, but it's like I play a game very smart on many design elements, but lacking of soul and talent, this little thing hard to explain but that changes all.

I have now 40H in the game, made about 2 planets, the case is closed for me, at least for this first play, not sure I'll finish it. i wonder if I shouldn't have wait one year so they fix the no save.

 

[Dasale]

All this is well and good, but all your examples are from Dragon Age and similar. I never said MEA has better gameplay than Dragon Age. I never compared the gameplay. I specifically mentioned the Mass Effect series in that regard, so which gameplay (Mass Effect 1, 2 or 3) is better than MEA (overall, not just aspects) and why?

No way I wanted compare to DAI, the DAI quotes was just an answer to the bashing in the review.

Firstly I don't find combats of MEA are overall better than those in ME2 and ME3, and those of ME3 are better than those of ME2. MEA (not finished), have some better combats than both, but repetitive on many aspects. Their random save them in part but not fully, more repetitions, more combats a bit trash, I don't mean pointless stuff outdoor. So overall ME2 and even more ME3 have better combats, even if best combats of the series are probably in MEA.

ME2 is a very unique RPG centered on companions, the main story is great, all stuff around companions is developed and great. It's a very intense game, with good stuff on all aspects, the only very weak point is exploration of areas. For now MEA is a good leisure, but lacking of intensity beside some combats, and lacking of memorable parts (areas/characters/stories/quests). The main topic and main story could be well covered, but main story is pointlessly jerky because of the no save system. And no play it at a lower difficulty to ensure you'll never die is a bad choice because of a bad design, and repeat any parts of those special parts is a disaster for the story telling and the mood. Character building becomes quickly automatic once you have made your initial setup and then not really interesting. I mean it's nothing better than ME2.

This let crafting, equipment, exploration in favor of MEA.

Exploration is just very good on paper, for now only two planets done but those two are medium quality. You find it has better exploration than DAI but I don't agree. On details both did a very good job, much better than TW3 and Skyrim, for paths and obstacles designs, both remind the work on that in Gothic 2 but they do it a larger scale which is much harder. Then on details MEA takes the lead and I'll skip the list. But it misses the point because:
- Firstly it's vehicle exploration, it's more rush exploration design, in DAI many areas are great with walking, it's much more fluent than like in MEA, move, leave vehicle, small walk/combat/scan, get back in vehicle, repeat. It's even worse because they should have designed it with a whistle like TW3 so walking exploration could really work.
- Planets (only 2 for now) are too monotonous, they are a small subset of textures, there isn't significant changes, it's cool at first, but very repetitive, not boring, but no wow or tourism effect. On that DAI and Skyrim are hugely better both.
- Planet filling, is a lot of filled with many simple quests, for me most aren't better than the DAi simple quests. Enemy sites and robots sites lack of variations, and after a few, it's cool but nothing marking. At reverse DAI setup many stunning areas, for example when rather soon in game, you walk along a beach and a companion says you to look that, and you see a huge giant fighting with a huge dragon. Another example is there's an areas with giant animals, huge giants, one huge dragon, you can get there rather soon for a huge thrilling adventure, but there are many moments like that, many not that strong but with a hugely higher diversity than MEA, this puts MEA very far, cold brain design. Skyrim did an amazing job on landscapes, so there's many wow, but they miss the intensity filling, the abuse of dragons quickly break the charm, and overall it's not at same reach of DAI but for pure landscape. The Witcher 3 missed the thrilling, it's too realistic in a way, but they did a unique job for trying make live a world, so it marks the point by its world, and NPC filling mainly. Al in all despite the huge amount of work on details, quite better done overall than all three, still MEA miss the point in comparison of all three. And for DAI let make it clear that a completionist play will kill the play if not the player, but there's no point to do any.

What's the link with ME series, just to pinpoint that despite all the very good work on exploration, MEA doesn't hit the target, it's pleasant but that's not enough to mark the point. It's quite better stuff than previous ME but at a too medium quality to make a difference. And then there's crafting and equipments, soulless as in whole ME series, just massive in MEA, this doesn't change anything.

For me it's not enough, and from far to compensate ME2 qualities, and this let ME2 quite above.

When I played first time ME3, it wasn't at release and it was late but not after end changed. I didn't bother on any comment and never realized anything. Played it and I found it great and better than ME2, more balanced when ME2 is sort of too much focused on companions, better combats, better areas, more, and I even loved the not too crystal clear end, and the non Hollywood happy end. Then I started a replay, then bothered about Internet and just get disgusted by the flux of hate. Since then i never replayed it, and it's difficult to argue in detail about it.

I don't dislike MEA and don't regret have buy it rather soon, but still with a 30% sale (higher sale was a burden to get). What I regret is have wait 2 years before to play and buy DAI that is much more flawed but with much better qualities, it's just unfair for DAi in comparison of MEA. I also regret have play that soon MEA, perhaps wait one year will allow play a game with the "no save" bad design fixed.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

A correct build? Not really. Arm with some patience for the highest difficulty.
http://answers.ea.com/t5/Game-Information/Insanity-132-Kett-Cardinal-30-Rockets-Later/td-p/5993458

TThe max difficulty is given by the product, these players make it difficult for themselves. Their approach to builds is nothing different from players who decide to go for a knife only run in lambda products.

Not necessary? Are you saying me that this is possible? I mean possible and useful? Combats are too dynamic, it's more a fake feature to prepare transition to single player.

Possible, fully, fights leave long spans (four, five seconds). Useful, another story.
As players do not use the feature, it is not possible to tell.

 

[joxer]

Gimme a break, the max difficulty turned into bulletsponges was developers' decision, players have nothting to do with it nor did it themselves.

Players I've linked do not use Bioconverter based build so it's still not clear if this build is a design omission or was deliberately added to the game for peeling overblown HP on max difficulty.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

This is taken from the linked thread.
Players keep levelling up.
From the level 80 to onward, there is an increasing gap between the PC's power and resiliency of enemies (second post in the thread)

A post even offers a solution: stop levelling the PC once 80 is hit

That is making troubles for themselves, they go for a way of playing that makes a run more difficult than it is. The same way players could go for a knife run.