RPGWatch Feature - Avadon 3 Review

[forgottenlor]

Very nice review. I love the Avernum series. Trying to decide if I want to try Avadon or Geneforge.

If you can stomach the old Geneforge graphics, you might want to go with that. You seem to like open worlds, and Geneforge is one huge island you can explore as you like (The map works a lot like Baldur's Gate 1). I might start with Geneforge 2, though, as the first two Geneforges suffer from being very similar, and 2 in my opinion is a little bit more polished and balanced. I say Geneforge is my favourite Spiderweb game, but that's because I played it first. Had I played part 2 first, I'd probably have considered it the better part.

 

[suibhne]

The character advancement/skill system is *slightly* different

Can you comment on how it's changed? My biggest disappointment with Avadon has always been the overly restricted character progression paths - the columns are unnecessarily tied together in ways that really restrict freedom in character-building. I really don't enjoy building characters in the first two Avadon games; every level-up feels like I'm mostly putting points into categories dictated by choices I already made near the beginning of the game.

Aside from this, I've loved the encounter design and narrative delivery in the Avadon series so far.

 

[fadedc]

I generally play them on hard and at least with more modern game they usually become quite difficult right away. I remember in Avernum 1 struggling to complete my starter quests on hard. Avadon has always been easier though, probably because the lack of exploration leads to fewer circumstances where you need to come back to a quest at a higher level.

Every Spiderweb game I've played has a steep difficulty progression.

 

[TomRon]

I have an iPad. But I found this on google: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spidweb.avadon&hl=en

Thanks Pibbur, I looked it up. It seems it's only compatible with tablets, and although I have a couple I never use them for gaming, simply because most times I don't even havre them with me. I'm considering making an exeption for these games though.

But that explains why I've never seen them when looking for interesting games on Google Play, I use my phone and uncompatible games are filtered out.

 

[Deleted User]

Very nice review. I love the Avernum series. Trying to decide if I want to try Avadon or Geneforge.

You can't go wrong with any of his series or games, imo. Avadon is excellent, although much different than Geneforge, Avernum or Nethergate. Avadon 2 was simply one of the best "Real RPGs" through and through. By Real I simply mean it had all the RPG elements you could really want (which is typical of Jeff's games), and you'd never confuse it for some hybrid or anything less than an RPG.

Geneforge is pretty brilliant, has a great setting, interesting and intriguing world and lore to explore, and is very unique. Avadon is more straight forward in the sense that you get typical party members, they have stories, backgrounds, etc., and it's a more medieval type setting. Geneforge is an alien setting in comparison, and your party members are your own genetic creations (monsters, basically). Both of them excellent, both of them very different and both worth playing.

 

[Deleted User]

We've had a looong dsiscussion about the graphics in another thread. Graphics are simple, but sharp, and I like the style.

Another thing I like with them: the games work very well on pads. Vogel's games ensure that there at least is some high quality stuff available.

Pibbur who is happy that there are different types of games with different types of graphics.

Nice one! I agree. I made a video talking about how Avernum on Android may be the deepest RPG experience on mobile. Those versions are a blast to play.

 

[forgottenlor]

Can you comment on how it's changed? My biggest disappointment with Avadon has always been the overly restricted character progression paths - the columns are unnecessarily tied together in ways that really restrict freedom in character-building. I really don't enjoy building characters in the first two Avadon games; every level-up feels like I'm mostly putting points into categories dictated by choices I already made near the beginning of the game.

Aside from this, I've loved the encounter design and narrative delivery in the Avadon series so far.

Its not quite as tied together as it was. The three skill branches are now distinct and don't tie together. So you need to raise skill one in order to raise skill 2, and skill 2 to raise skill 3. You don't have need to raise the basic skills in other branches anymore though, which means you can completely focus on one branch, if you like.

 

[suibhne]

Its not quite as tied together as it was. The three skill branches are now distinct and don't tie together. So you need to raise skill one in order to raise skill 2, and skill 2 to raise skill 3. You don't have need to raise the basic skills in other branches anymore though, which means you can completely focus on one branch, if you like.

That sounds like a big step forward. Thanks.

 

[Pessimeister]

After putting in my first 9 hours, I'm very tempted to start a spoilerific "where are they now?" thread focusing on the fate of Avadon companions incorporating the entire trilogy.

It's great to see power crazy Nathalie from Avadon 1 make a return for instance, although I'm more curious to know if Sevilin makes an appearance in some form - as I can't remember exactly what happened to him at the end of the first game. (Others include Shima and Jenell…)

Just to add to the above conversation, I do like how the skill branches are laid out and presented - it is more logical to understand and one can foresee future point spending easily. Spell upgrades are nice too so far…

After a slightly sedate beginning, there's been no real surprises yet, but I've only just hit Chapter 2, playing mostly with Khalida and Nathalie in a duel sorcerer party. Classic Spiderweb all the way.

 

[forgottenlor]

After putting in my first 9 hours, I'm very tempted to start a spoilerific "where are they now?" thread focusing on the fate of Avadon companions incorporating the entire trilogy.

It's great to see power crazy Nathalie from Avadon 1 make a return for instance, although I'm more curious to know if Sevilin makes an appearance in some form - as I can't remember exactly what happened to him at the end of the first game. (Others include Shima and Jenell…)

Just to add to the above conversation, I do like how the skill branches are laid out and presented - it is more logical to understand and one can foresee future point spending easily. Spell upgrades are nice too so far…

After a slightly sedate beginning, there's been no real surprises yet, but I've only just hit Chapter 2, playing mostly with Khalida and Nathalie in a duel sorcerer party. Classic Spiderweb all the way.

I found the story of chapter 1 particularly intense, but maybe its because I'm a father of a teenage daughter, and I could relate to the family story.

 

[Pessimeister]

I can certainly see why that would be the case, as that dilemma was strong and well captured. I've role-played a sycophantic duty-lap dog to the Pact in the past though, which I hope remains consistently possible in dialogue throughout this game too.

The sedate moments I was referring to were the establishing scenes right at the start of the game and the opening Commander Cerise mission. I was thinking it might have a more energetic start given it's the last game in the series but sure enough, the momentum did pick up immensely after that with a certain somebody's reappearance.

 

[forgottenlor]

I can certainly see why that would be the case, as that dilemma was strong and well captured. I've role-played a sycophantic duty-lap dog to the Pact in the past though, which I hope remains consistently possible in dialogue throughout this game too.

The sedate moments I was referring to were the establishing scenes right at the start of the game and the opening Commander Cerise mission. I was thinking it might have a more energetic start given it's the last game in the series but sure enough, the momentum did pick up immensely after that with a certain somebody's reappearance.

I'ts interesting to hear what you're role-playing., I've always tried to role-play a Pact patriot walking the tightrope of trying to work for peace and justice while surviving. It lead me down a different path this game than in previous ones.

 

[luj1]

I only recently discovered the Spiderweb Games , I played Avernum Escape from the Pit first , and this is my second of their games... I can notice


- Avadon is more story driven, more linear than Avernum, Avernum felt more open-world
- A lot less detailed world than Avernum, missions replace explore mode
- Create 1 PC and take companions out with you on missions, much like in KotOR

still i love it, all spiderweb games have something that separates them, but they are still brain childs of the same man

 

[Pessimeister]

My old impressions thread from the first game (with some mild spoilers and comparisons to Avernum) https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21875

Also, here's an Avadon 2 thread with some analysis from my experience.
https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22431&page=2

15 hours into the third game now, the challenge is at a pleasant level with the hardest battle so far probably being inside the fungus cavern. I sense I'm approaching the tail end of chapter 2; as I'm up to the Monitor Base C quest. I've never played two sorcerers before in a Spiderweb game for this length of time, so the positioning has been very important. Tactically, the hot coals spell has been fun to experiment with.