Starfarer - Alpha Release

[ManWhoJaped]

Game looks awesome. I bookmarked it to pick up later. Thanks for the good find.

 

[ManWhoJaped]

Sounds great. Also great to see Linux support!

I managed to get 2 people to get angry with me over my rant about Microsoft's evil game monopolising "Direct X". Pretty much, I said we didn't need it.

I agree directX is retarded. In fact there's almost no aspect of it that doesn't suck.

Ended up working out that a better angle was to praise open source and let the other guy work out for himself about DirectX and the DirectXbox360. They said "openGL sucks!!", but they were not understanding the greatest minds are also the ones making the biggest bucks from NOT going open source. Turn the same attention to OpenGL and it would be just as good.

But there's a couple things wrong here, too.

Mostly is that OpenGL does suck, and now that it's been taken over by an assinine commity it is basically dead. Much like C++ - oh they will make changes all the time but all progress will halt and all it will do is make it more complicated and messed up.

NVidia is only company capable of making a replacement for that crap. They are moving that direction but it won't be rasterized at all. Then we can kiss this BS goodbye forever, and good riddance.

The other big issue is that simply using the same library doesn't mean drivers will work the same on different platforms. Most people think it's a performance only issue for some reason, but as it stands now it's pretty much impossible to support OpenGL on linux unless you are willing to not use features or you have Carmacklike clout that means you can force them to actually fix the bugs in their drivers.

Eventually it came back to money ruining everything again. The only reason NOT to go open source is to protect the code you want to sell. If not for money everyone would work on user tools and SDKs which were all 100% compatible with eachother by design.

I seem to recall waiting for years on end to upgrade libraries due to circular dependencies. You get the response "upgrade your code!" if you point out a new version breaks something. But if you don't own the code, you have to wait. Now throw in 10-11 libraries that have some dependencies between each other and you spend more time trying to upgrade stuff than making your own project. It's more ridiculous when you are not even a developer, just a user of some project.

Not to say open source is bad, but the whole GNU concept is completely flawed and delsuional and no one who really knows C or C++ would think that's a workable way to do things. The cynic in me says they know it's not, and that's how they milk money out of people.

All assets freely available. Art, sound, etc. Things would come together lightning fast as modding communities create then evolve projects. There would be no DRM. No DLC. So much more original games not based on market research. Hell, there'd be no market research. No advertising between TV shows! No advertising anywhere! With no money, there'd be nothing to steal! Crime would vanish, no kids would grow up in poverty to become less than the true adult they could be! Seed corporations wouldn't need to worry about seedy practises like mule seeds that only grow one generation. All corporations would be able to forget about maximising profits and focus on maximising lifestyle! omg!!!

Could pretty much list any problem with the world and point out how money, if not the sole cause, is the main contributor.

So, erm… yeah… Go open source!!! /rant

Yeah but how many people would do anything if they didn't have to? Should I sit here for 18 hours coding til 4am or go on a free trip to hawaii? Decisions, decisions.

 

[The Hulk]

Hi, I have a question about the game, for Alex. It looks interesting to me so far. The first space crpg I ever saw was Megatraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy(watched my brother play it for awhile), in the early 90's(the game is very dated looking now, but back then it wasn't). It was the first game that got me interested in space crpg's. I remember the character creation being detailed and in-depth and interesting. I've never really seen a space crpg like it since then, that I can recall. I was wondering, will Starfarer have a large number of skills/talents like Megatraveller did, and have you played the game before? If not, may be something which you could draw inspiration/get more ideas from. I realize you probably don't have as big a budget as those guys had, and your game will be different to some degree or another, but just wanted to chime in and hopefully hear your thoughts.
P.S. Another question I had, is will our character be able to leave the flagship and go down to planets on missions?

 

[Charles-cgr]

I agree directX is retarded. In fact there's almost no aspect of it that doesn't suck.


But there's a couple things wrong here, too.

Mostly is that OpenGL does suck, and now that it's been taken over by an assinine commity it is basically dead. Much like C++ - oh they will make changes all the time but all progress will halt and all it will do is make it more complicated and messed up.

NVidia is only company capable of making a replacement for that crap. They are moving that direction but it won't be rasterized at all. Then we can kiss this BS goodbye forever, and good riddance.

The other big issue is that simply using the same library doesn't mean drivers will work the same on different platforms. Most people think it's a performance only issue for some reason, but as it stands now it's pretty much impossible to support OpenGL on linux unless you are willing to not use features or you have Carmacklike clout that means you can force them to actually fix the bugs in their drivers.



I seem to recall waiting for years on end to upgrade libraries due to circular dependencies. You get the response "upgrade your code!" if you point out a new version breaks something. But if you don't own the code, you have to wait. Now throw in 10-11 libraries that have some dependencies between each other and you spend more time trying to upgrade stuff than making your own project. It's more ridiculous when you are not even a developer, just a user of some project.

Not to say open source is bad, but the whole GNU concept is completely flawed and delsuional and no one who really knows C or C++ would think that's a workable way to do things. The cynic in me says they know it's not, and that's how they milk money out of people.



Yeah but how many people would do anything if they didn't have to? Should I sit here for 18 hours coding til 4am or go on a free trip to hawaii? Decisions, decisions.

No temptation there. If no one needs money you won't find a pilot to fly the plane, or anyone to actually build it in the first place. So you'll be able to code 24 / 7, given you've found someone to build a computer, and others to maintain a worldwide power source, just for the fun of it.

Well, maybe not 24/7. You'll also be growing your own food, and that'll take time away from development.

 

[vidder]

Bought it yesterday. I really like the art direction and 2D graphics. Also it looks very polished, even more for an alpha version.
I hope you can create the open world and rpg game around that combat engine, like you envisioned it.
Looking forward to see you project flourish and handing out more alpha versions for me to try. (Do you have a forum for player feedback?)

 

[Zerotown]

<snip>… Unfortunately I don't see anyone making reasonable Elite-likes with in-depth RPG and focus on single player these days.

<offtopic>
No in-depth RPG, but if you're interested in Elite-likes you might want to check out Pioneer.
</offtopic>

Current alpha reminds me too much of Gratuitous Space Battles, which I never really could get into. I'll keep tracking Starfarer though... who knows how it will turn out with the RPG-elements in place.

 

[alexm]

I was hoping to pre-order, but my last bit of funds were spoken for prior unless more somehow trickles in. Looking forward to purchasing the full version somewhere closer to or beyond release!

I keep running into you everywhere I go

[spolier]Hi, I have a question about the game, for Alex. It looks interesting to me so far. The first space crpg I ever saw was Megatraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy(watched my brother play it for awhile), in the early 90's(the game is very dated looking now, but back then it wasn't). It was the first game that got me interested in space crpg's. I remember the character creation being detailed and in-depth and interesting. I've never really seen a space crpg like it since then, that I can recall. I was wondering, will Starfarer have a large number of skills/talents like Megatraveller did, and have you played the game before? If not, may be something which you could draw inspiration/get more ideas from. I realize you probably don't have as big a budget as those guys had, and your game will be different to some degree or another, but just wanted to chime in and hopefully hear your thoughts.[/spoiler]
P.S. Another question I had, is will our character be able to leave the flagship and go down to planets on missions?

Haven't played the game, but reading about it now it reminds me of the Magic Candle series, for some reason. Totally different genre, of course… It sounds like Megatraveller treats planets as the main focus of gameplay, with space being just something to cross to get from one to another. If that's true, I'd say Starfarer is in a pretty different genre. The focus is on what takes place in space, aside from the business of managing your outposts and such.

There's a fair number of skills planned, yes, but I'd rather not talk about it in great detail at this point - too likely to change. About going down to planets - only conceptually You'll see a top-down tiled view of the planet surface for purposes of outpost building and the like, but not for actually going down there and moving about.

You can switch ships freely though, so you're not limited to just one ship being your flagship for all time.

Bought it yesterday. I really like the art direction and 2D graphics. Also it looks very polished, even more for an alpha version.
I hope you can create the open world and rpg game around that combat engine, like you envisioned it.
Looking forward to see you project flourish and handing out more alpha versions for me to try. (Do you have a forum for player feedback?)

Thanks! Re: forum - probably will in the near future, have been getting quite a few questions about that!

 

[Thrasher]

Very visually impressive! Reminds me of asteroids (x1000000, of course).

But... the realtime battles look entirely too busy for me. It looks a bit like too much like a panic on mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts for me. Unless your ships do a good job of controlling themselves, but then it becomes too passive for me.

 

[SAGO]

its not a good game if there is no jumping

 

[alexm]

Very visually impressive! Reminds me of asteroids (x1000000, of course).

But… the realtime battles look entirely too busy for me. It looks a bit like too much like a panic on mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts for me. Unless your ships do a good job of controlling themselves, but then it becomes too passive for me.

You're only controlling one ship - the flagship - directly, though (using WASD to move, LMB to fire, RMB for shields, etc). To the rest of your fleet, you give high-level orders (such as "capture this objective"). Typically, you won't spend much time doing that, unless you /want/ to - they're quite autonomous. You can also pause at any time, including while giving orders.

its not a good game if there is no jumping

When you press Ctrl, the captain in your flagship jumps. I promise.

 

[Thrasher]

That sounds very manageable! I'll give it a go!

 

[ManWhoJaped]

No temptation there. If no one needs money you won't find a pilot to fly the plane, or anyone to actually build it in the first place. So you'll be able to code 24 / 7, given you've found someone to build a computer, and others to maintain a worldwide power source, just for the fun of it.

Well, maybe not 24/7. You'll also be growing your own food, and that'll take time away from development.

I wish I lived somewhere more socialistic so I could get on the dole just for that reason, but I'm not sure how it would work out in reality.

 

[Thrasher]

Oh never mind. I should't have to pay money to alpha test someone's early software. It should be free. for alpha testers.

 

[JDR13]

Great visuals for an indie. I'm impressed by what I've seen so far.

 

[blatantninja]

Oh never mind. I should't have to pay money to alpha test someone's early software. It should be free. for alpha testers.

That's a nasty way to look at it. If you alpha test for them, you're getting the finished product at a significant discount.

 

[Thrasher]

It's nasty to expect someone to pay to alpha test. Rather outrageous, I'd even say. Offer a discount on the finished product, but absolutely don't expect testers to pay up front. Especially since there's no guarantee the product will be delivered in a finished state! Paying $10 for an alpha product may be worth it to some people, but asking for detailed quality feedback and charging you for the privilege is crazy...

 

[rune_74]

It's nasty to expect someone to pay to alpha test. Rather outrageous, I'd even say. Offer a discount on the finished product, but absolutely don't expect testers to pay up front. Especially since there's no guarantee the product will be delivered in a finished state! Paying $10 for an alpha product may be worth it to some people, but asking for detailed quality feedback and charging you for the privilege is crazy…

I don't get it….you get access to the alpha if you preorder it, if you don't preorder it no access…so whats the issue? I mean if you don't want to pay 10 dollars(cheap) then don't…you just have to wait and will have zero input in the game…which in some cases could be a good thing.

Look at it as a bonus for preordering.

 

[Thrasher]

I dunno. When I get access to an alpha, and play it, I assume responsibility to report everything I find back to the dev. To me this is more like a job, than fun. Getting free access is the compensation that makes up for it. Getting access to the final (if ever delivered), is not so important, since I doubt I will be replaying any game.

If you think it's worth $10 to be able to report someone's bugs and offer design suggestions, fine, whatever rocks your boat… But you should know that real software professionals get paid to do that.

 

[rune_74]

I dunno. When I get access to an alpha, and play it, I assume responsibility to report everything I find back to the dev. To me this is more like a job, than fun. Getting free access is the compensation that makes up for it. Getting access to the final (if ever delivered), is not so important, since I doubt I will be replaying any game.

If you think it's worth $10 to be able to report someone's bugs and offer design suggestions, fine, whatever rocks your boat… But you should know that real software professionals get paid to do that.

Are you simply not understanding this? I mean you don't have to report anything…he hasn't asked anyone to do anything…if you do it's your choice. Christ he should have called it a combat demo so noone gets confused. No where does it say report all bugs for the alpha version to the company. Your reaching.

I think it's not a bad idea to offer an incentive with preordering...hell why not?

 

[Thrasher]

Sure. If you treat it just as a pre-order with incentive - $10 off and access to the alpha, I can understand the attraction.