Sui Generis: Exanima - The Combat Mechanics

[ChienAboyeur]

It is so focused on combat it comes with an arena mode. Hard to understand how so called RPGers are not enamoured with the product.

This is another game where someone may sue for their pledge back. This team hasn't proven able to meet the goals set in the kickstarter at all. If a civil suit gets started on behalf of the backers, these guys may be paying a lot of money back; even if the game never comes to light. I can see the lawyers salivating at the opportunity.

This is another project that does what it takes to be protected: the project underdelivers. Nothing will happen.

Personal action: how much to cover for the filling fees to register the plea only?
Might be more than the pledge itself. And that is just the beginning. No money to recover here, only more money to throw in to feed the system.

Class based action: the crowdfunding crowd does not expect games. They love the economical model and that is where their expectations stop at. As long a product is crowdfunded, it is a good product. It does not go beyond.

Since I'm a backer, I may even look into it at some point.

Better to hurry in that case. Falling behind schedule is unarguably underdelivering. Crowdfunded project quite often fall behind schedule in such ways they add 50 to 100 % to the estimation of the developpment time.

It is widely expected that a common institution of justice in the west (especially in the US by the way) will jump at the opportunity to interpret the latency in filing the complaint as a sign of softness from the plaintiff. The complainant's waited so much time when the project was so obviously behind schedule, it is a sign the plaintiff did not care about receiving their product. They did not want it.
Therefore they have nothing to complain about.

I vaguely remember that one of the Devs moved very shortly after the campaign. If he spent pledge money for that, and didn't specifically say he was going to up front, boom.

Highly possible. The office was (and might still be) located in Italy, the team was scattered and some might have moved from England for example to join the project.

This reminded, there is no boom. Paying the move of a worker is nothing. Crowdfunded projects are struggling. Some guys bought sport cars, others moved their HQ to trendy (and expensive) districts etc
No boom.

Crowdfunding is in the business of squandering resources.

 

[Sacred_Path]

crpgnut gifted me a key but there wasn't enough content to make me play for any length of time. Wake me up when this is more than a combat demo.

 

[hiciacit]

Please understand mate the design team is small and wish to do everything proper, the tech demo is there as a benchmark to test features going into the final game, while the world is being built behind the scene. True the developer was optimistic on the estimated final release but progress is being made at a steady pace.
Regardless several people play and enjoy the demo for what its worth, and in my honest opinion its a fun game

In my honest opinion, it's not a game. And you sound like a plant, mate.

 

[crpgnut]

Right, Duke_Marius has three posts all about a non-game. Plant. Could be the Maddoc dude or one of the other plebes. Irrelevant. The only true thing he may have stated is that he's a backer. Since I'm a backer too, our "believability" is equal.

The gist of my earlier post is that there is a legal responsibility to the backers. This may or may not be followed up on, but since Kickstarter is based in the US, there has been a precedent. I don't know if any of the folks actually live here though, so I'm not sure what effect, if any, it would have.

 

[Duke_Marius]

Lets use and alter Jokers little joke shall we. Blizzard uses the coming soon Trade Mark no one bats a eyelash, a small indie developer with not even half the man power and resources does this everyone losses they're minds"
Come on guys have some patience.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

No patience is required: that studio already did what is expected, every backer receives something. That is enough.

In one year or so, people might receive some little more. People will go extactic as they cant do otherwise.

It is all set now.

 

[mercy]

Sui Generis has top-notch graphics and the character creation is amazing. Motion capture for all combat animations was probably well outside their budget, unfortunately.

 

[user404]

Sui Generis has top-notch graphics and the character creation is amazing. Motion capture for all combat animations was probably well outside their budget, unfortunately.

Their system wouldn't work with MoCap animations. It is so unique that the process to generate those animations require a completely different toolset and approach that every other game out there. It is a real struggle to get human like animations out, but in my point of view it totally worth. Pre-canned animations in a character with a simple collision box have nothing to do against physical limbs with simulated muscles, no matter how good the pre-canned animations looks like.

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

Personally, I'm glad to see someone trying something different. I understood it was a risky venture when I backed it. Doing something new always is. Sure, I'd like to see a complete modern RPG, brimming with gem collection and gay elf sex. But, if nothing further happens and all we are left with is the Examina demo, I won't consider my meager pledge wasted.

 

[Duke_Marius]

Personally, I'm glad to see someone trying something different. I understood it was a risky venture when I backed it. Doing something new always is. Sure, I'd like to see a complete modern RPG, brimming with gem collection and gay elf sex. But, if nothing further happens and all we are left with is the Examina demo, I won't consider my meager pledge wasted.

Thank you Huggy, that's very nice of you to say so

 

[rjshae]

It was stated here during the initial Kickstarter that it seemed overly ambitious, but with intriguing possibilities. I think at least the first part of that opinion has been borne out. The slow progress is hardly cause for legal action.

The intent of trying to apply physics to the world is a good one, but it will always be hindered by the limitations of the controller and the physical reflexes of the player. Maybe it will work better if they try coding in some "muscle memory" into the character and just let the player guide the overall action. Some of us just aren't good at twitch games.

 

[suibhne]

Maybe it will work better if they try coding in some "muscle memory" into the character and just let the player guide the overall action.

That's exactly the problem. Aside from the team's (apparently) unrealistic ambitions during the KS pitch (an appearance since validated by the fact that they're over a year late with the full game's release and there's absolutely no RPG in sight), my other complaint was always that this system is less realistic than we've seen in many other games. Most human actions are autonomic, including much fighting technique (for experienced fighters). This system totally misses the basic autonomicity of being human (or, indeed, of being alive), and the end result is an unrealistic mish-mash of procedural animations with invisible weights attached. That's what they've achieved so far.

If you're aiming for "realism", you need to at least start with an idea of how the real world works. Mocap isn't perfect, but it's pretty good at capturing the autonomicity of real humans and making that available to players.

Part of the reason I'm picking on this project is that it's yet another example of the fetish for "realism" and how poorly it typically works in practice. Games are always abstracted on some level, even when they're real-time, first-person, whatever. The trick is to abstract the right stuff, not pretend that your system is "real".

I want them to succeed, and I hope they can figure out a way to do that. It's pretty clear that either the project or the Kickstarter campaign was mismanaged, and they're now in a real bind due to the tension between those two. This might have turned into a compelling game given enough development resources over a long enough period, but all those unfulfilled Kickstarter promises don't really give them another 5 years of leeway.

 

[Citizenx]

Last ks project I backed was Jagged Alliance Flashback…game completely sucked, played it for less than an hour, complete waste of my money. Whether b.mettle finishes the game to your entitled (pfft backer) expectations or not is no guarantee on the play quality. If that's not obvious to you backing a ks project then I'd say your naivete will lead you to many more disappointments.

The gist of my earlier post is that there is a legal responsibility to the backers. This may or may not be followed up on, but since Kickstarter is based in the US…

What irks the piss out of me is the current AMERICAN entitled whining about first world problems. It's a frickin VIDEO GAME. How's your health? Food and shelter and some love in your heart…? Then chill out. You're doing better than most of the rest of the world. Getting a boner about filing a lawsuit over your choice to spend expendable income on a game still being developed…sad.

My point- in case you haven't clued in yet? You want JUSTICE in the world? Great. You pay taxes both state and federal? How about a lawsuit on your local law enforcement for murdering black kids (you're likely white)? How about filing a lawsuit against YOUR federal govt for war crimes against humanity for bombing the shit out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Pakistan et f'n cetera for murdering children who would probably love to play the games in your collection that you don't even like or play?

Or the next time you think about laying money down for the next ks project- you donate that money to a vet with their arms or legs blown off from the wars you likely support?

Reality check- rant over. Your first world problems are bs, be grateful for what you have AND for what you don't have.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

If that's not obvious to you backing a ks project then I'd say your naivete will lead you to many more disappointments.

There is no naivete: players back crowdfunded projects because they support the economical model.

Now naivete:

What irks the piss out of me is the current AMERICAN entitled whining about first world problems.

A contract is about entitlements. Both sides are entitled to receive when each side committed to deliver.

It's a frickin VIDEO GAME. How's your health? Food and shelter and some love in your heart…? Then chill out. You're doing better than most of the rest of the world. Getting a boner about filing a lawsuit over your choice to spend expendable income on a game still being developed…sad.

My point- in case you haven't clued in yet? You want JUSTICE in the world? Great. You pay taxes both state and federal? How about a lawsuit on your local law enforcement for murdering black kids (you're likely white)? How about filing a lawsuit against YOUR federal govt for war crimes against humanity for bombing the shit out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Pakistan et f'n cetera for murdering children who would probably love to play the games in your collection that you don't even like or play?

After the fearmongering by waving the threat of legal sueing and sentencing that cant happen, now the shifting of blame.
First point, minor point. The problems pushed as examples are first word problems. That the local law enforcement shoots down people in a first world location is a first world problem that does not exclude crowdfunding as being a problem.
In other words, one can speak of one or another.

People do not want justice, they want order.

The problems that are pushed forward as immediate priority (people shot down by law enforcements, the wars etc) are problems that enable people to get problems like crowdfunding.

Crowdfunding problems are emerging problems, the wars etc are underlying problems.

Calling people to solve underlying problems when they cant solve emerging problems is like calling people who cant take a one meter long jump to attempt a 10 meter long jump.

It is naive to deploy gross efforts to cover for immediate reality and push forward
examples of problems that people are even less able to tackle. It is useless.

There is zero threat for them to be sentenced. That threat does not exist.

Or the next time you think about laying money down for the next ks project- you donate that money to a vet with their arms or legs blown off from the wars you likely support?

Reality check- rant over. Your first world problems are bs, be grateful for what you have AND for what you don't have.

People know what they do when they crowdfund. That is the reality check.
The rant is not a reality check. It is a gross attempt to distract from the fact that the studio is at no threat of being sentenced in a court.
Here is the reality check.

 

[DArtagnan]

Ambition is great - and I'm all for it, but you can't expect people to support you when you're obviously not able to deliver.

 

[hiciacit]

Come on guys have some patience.

Patience is not the issue. I don't mind waiting a few more years. The issue is that after a not insignificant time, there is still no sign of an actual game coming, let alone anything close to the kind of things promised in the kickstarter.

suibhne said it best in his first post:

And despite Bare Mettle's extraordinarily ambitious promises of emergent narrative and gameworld reactivity, there's still zero evidence, after three years post-Kickstarter (and over a year after they promised the full game would be complete), that they can deliver an actual RPG rather than a clumsy combat system in an attractive engine.
This project is a disaster, at least when evaluated as a KS campaign. It set off warning bells even three years ago, and I'm so glad I cancelled my initial pledge.

It did set off warning bells even way back then, but I never canceled my pledge. Gambled and lost, and I don't even mind. But it is indeed pretty obvious you cannot deliver.