The Chinese are starting to make high quality cheap phones

[txa1265]

Great post and excellent points! I actually agree with most of it ... and I think it is important to always remember that Apple's phones and the 'top end' from Samsung, HTC, Nokia, LG, etc are all 'luxury' items that don't reflect a 'need' even for smartphone users.

Apple has always had the same strategy: offer inferior specs, but convince consumers to buy their devices anyway with marketing to make them look "mystical" and "trendy" by copying old designs dating from the sixties and seventies from Braun.

This one thing I dispute - *every* year Apple's new phones are the top performing devices at release, and typically still match or outperform the next Galaxy phone released 6 months later. Specs and performance are different things - you also have to factor in OS ... and iOS is much more efficient than Android, which still battles legacy code that makes it less responsive and laggy (my Galaxy Note 3 was outperformed by the much older iPhone 5 in daily tasks).

Prices have simply become ridiculous. Here, with the lowered dollar, you have to pay almost $1000 for an Iphone 6 Plus! It's simply outrageous!

Wow ... what about the Galaxy S6 edge? In the US the unsubsidized pricing is pretty even amongst all of the 'premium' phones.

This phone and other Chinese models can be offered for cheaper and allow the companies behind them to make a legitimate small profit for two reasons: first, the specs are middle to high range rather than high range. Second: they spend almost nothing on marketing, contrarily to the likes of Apple, Samsung or HTC, for which this costs a fortune every year. It's the same thing for the new Asus Zenphone.

I partially agree - the phones you mention use components (or knock-off clones copied without permission or license) from ~ 2 years ago ... like that Sony camera module that is from the Samsung Galaxy S4 (i.e. 2013) and now in Chinese phones.

Also, Chinese companies routinely engage in intellectual property theft, aided by the government. This allows them to spend no money on research or design, simply steal ideas and property, and create knock-offs. This has been documented countless times, but companies like Apple and Samsung realize it is just the cost of doing business there.

Here is the thing: you can buy four of these phones for one Iphone of the same size. If txa replaces the iPhone for everyone in his family, every two years, it's going to totally cost a fortune! At this point it costs so much money that it's a plain horrible deal.

Fortunately we still get 'subsidized phones', so I can pay $149 for an iPhone 6 for my kids (who are still on their 2.5 year old iPhone 5s). This is a 2 year contract, but in our area only Verizon has decent coverage so we're pretty much locked anyway.

But you are correct - and yesterday I bought an unlocked 2nd gen Motorola E ... for $50, brand new.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The thing is that if you get a subsidized phone you're forced to get a more expensive plan than you could get away with. In Canada it has become much worse because there were 3 years plan and the government put an end to that. Since then the carriers are forcing consumers to get a $70 monthly plan or even $80 to get a subsidy on a high-end phone. And the upfront price is higher than the subsidy too.

If you manage to get one of these phones for cheap along with a cheap plan, it becomes much cheaper.

While it's true iOS is more optimized it's often ridiculous just how much Apple will cheap out on certain components. For instance the iPhone 6 Plus has 1GB of ram, and that phone which costs four times less has 3GB! There is no good reason for Apple to do that, other than it knowing that its customers will buy it anyway because it's an Apple product.

I think a lot of these components are newer than that, and I don't see why it would be less expensive due to stolen intellectual property. Almost all the costs are due to the components which are all off the shelf parts. This design in particular is pretty unique and not a copy of any other phone, it's not like some manufacturers who make a direct copy of the iPhone or the Galaxy.

As for the unsubsidized price of the iPhone, like I said a lot of it is due to the Canadian dollar. It was at parity with the US currency in early 2013. As of this writing it is worth 80 US cents (almost entirely due to falling oil prices).

This is taken straight from Apple Canada's site:

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I wouldn't trust Cyanogen if I were you. And the major problem of Android's design is its extremely weak permissions system to prevent apps from abusing your data. None of the forks really address that. When Cyanogen was run by the community, it tried to implement the strong permissions framework called PDroid. Google made threats to stop them. The whole platform is designed to allow for user data to be exploited.

Well at least Cyanogen's business model is based on selling themes and add-ons and making partnerships with OEM manufacturers, rather than spying on its users and selling all their data. It does have a built-in permissions system but it's true it could be more exhaustive. The best in this regard is Blackberry, by far, as detailed granular permissions have been built into the OS for a very long time and the whole architecture is based around carefully limiting permissions and giving full control.

Personally I don't care at all for apps, the only ones I use are Lastpass, Opera Mini and my VPN app, so I don't get anything that demands me access to all my data or has much incentives to.

 

[Ripper]

Fair enough, then - cyanogen minus Google apps should be reasonably private. I did see something a while ago about cyanogen looking to include some dubious 'services' from 'selected partners' but I can't find the link. The best privacy conscious fork is Replicant, but it only supports a very limited selection of phones.

If you're not interested in apps, the chinese Ubuntu phones might be worth looking at. Since it's proper Linux, the level of privacy control will be unparalleled for tech savvy users.

 

[txa1265]

Thanks HHR - again, great points.

For the subsidized, it is interesting that due to how my company discount works and dealing with Verizon, staying with the 'phone & plan' method actually offers us the cheapest overall approach ... for now. I know that is ending sooner than later - as is my hold-over unlimited data plan ...

And thanks for reminding me of the idiotic 1GB of data ... ugh, I had the iPad Air 2 (which has 2GB) before the iPhone 6+, so going back to constant tab reloads in Safari and apps dumping to default states to save memory all the time ... yeah, awesome. Almost as bad was the apologists trying to somehow rationalize that it didn't make a difference ... um, yeah, sure.

One thought though - while Apple is pricey, they are direct. You can track their piles of cash pretty directly to product sales, components used, factories and marketing and salaries and so on. Google? They make money by their ability to sell your private information to other people ...

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I've always thought Google was slimey and I never trusted them, I make it an objective to stay as far away from any of their services as possible.

I pay $36 a month for my cellphone plan, which gives me 1GB of monthly data along 400 minutes daily and unlimited minutes in the evening, and unlimited texting. And this is considered a great deal, this plan has even been discontinued.

It always amazes me how the US and to a greater extent Canada have some of the most pitiful plans on earth that are often worse than those of third world countries. These old carrier oligopolies are disgusting. When I went to Australia, which is a large country where everything is very expensive, I had a temporary sim card and they gave me 500 MB of data a day for $2 each day!

 

[GothicGothicness]

Don't you get a free data-plan and smartphone from your workplace in US and Canada ? Here it is becoming more and more common, so there is no need to buy a phone or data-plan.

 

[Ripper]

Can you get any better deals if you buy your own phone, and then just pay for the SIM connection? I get unlimited calls and data that way in the UK (not a place known for good value.)

 

[txa1265]

Don't you get a free data-plan and smartphone from your workplace in US and Canada ? Here it is becoming more and more common, so there is no need to buy a phone or data-plan.

I could get a work phone, but it is owned and controlled by them. And then it becomes a 24 hour tether, essentially. So since it is not required for me to have one (because I work in R&D and not manufacturing), I choose not to. I had enough of THAT before!

Plus the carriers like to do 'Family Plans', so all four of us are on the same managed plan.

To put it in perspective for our family of four it costs (including loads of taxes and fees) ~$230/month. AT&T would be a bit cheaper ... but only Verizon has reasonable coverage in our region.

 

[GothicGothicness]

I could get a work phone, but it is owned and controlled by them. And then it becomes a 24 hour tether, essentially. So since it is not required for me to have one (because I work in R&D and not manufacturing), I choose not to. I had enough of THAT before!

Plus the carriers like to do 'Family Plans', so all four of us are on the same managed plan.

To put it in perspective for our family of four it costs (including loads of taxes and fees) ~$230/month. AT&T would be a bit cheaper … but only Verizon has reasonable coverage in our region.

Dual SIM phones are very popular here because of that. The usual deal is that you get 5-10 GB/month 4G data ( switch to slower speed if used up) + change phone every two years + very very cheap or free calls. Essentially it means that unless you have children, you don't need to spend a dime on smartphones or data. People who don't stream a lot in HD or download a lot of stuff even don't buy internet at home.

 

[lostforever]

I would like to get my hands on dual sim phone but for very strange reason its hard to get a decent on here in UK.

 

[Pladio]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/test-cen...martphones-2015-buying-advice-uk-may-3511526/

 

[Humanity has risen!]

http://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_188622.html

This Doogee phone has better specs than the iPhone 6 and it costs $120!

This is simply ridiculous. At this point it's just stupid to buy a iPhone or any high end phone sold in the US. You can get 6 of these Doogee phones for a single iPhone and they will work just as well! Plus Doogee phones are super easy to root and they have removable batteries.

 

[txa1265]

http://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_188622.html

This Doogee phone has better specs than the iPhone 6 and it costs $120!

This is simply ridiculous. At this point it's just stupid to buy a iPhone or any high end phone sold in the US. You can get 6 of these Doogee phones for a single iPhone and they will work just as well! Plus Doogee phones are super easy to root and they have removable batteries.

It really *is* gorgeous ... but since it doesn't run iOS I will GUARANTEE it doesn't perform as well as an iPhone - because phones with better overall components than the Doogee don't.

These are some great mid-level phones you are highlighting that remind us that there is really no need for the high-end phones, with their high end cost!

But seriously - you should be commenting and comparing to Samsung and HTC (and even Lenovo) since THEY are the ones bleeding money as a result of these phones - NOT Apple. Continuing to always be anti-Apple when they aren't the real competition? Makes no sense.

But a great phone - thanks for highlighting.

Also worth noting - totally useless for about 40% of Americans who are on networks these things won't serve.

 

[GothicGothicness]

It really *is* gorgeous … but since it doesn't run iOS I will GUARANTEE it doesn't perform as well as an iPhone - because phones with better overall components than the Doogee don't.

These are some great mid-level phones you are highlighting that remind us that there is really no need for the high-end phones, with their high end cost!

But seriously - you should be commenting and comparing to Samsung and HTC (and even Lenovo) since THEY are the ones bleeding money as a result of these phones - NOT Apple. Continuing to always be anti-Apple when they aren't the real competition? Makes no sense.

But a great phone - thanks for highlighting.

Also worth noting - totally useless for about 40% of Americans who are on networks these things won't serve.

I don't know what is up with your iOS love, I have an old android phone and I have been comparing it to the iPhone 6 which has much better specs, and I don't notice this much better "iOS" perfomance you keep on about.

 

[txa1265]

I don't know what is up with your iOS love, I have an old android phone and I have been comparing it to the iPhone 6 which has much better specs, and I don't notice this much better "iOS" perfomance you keep on about.

Whatever. I won't do you research for you ...

And it isn't the point, not in the least.

My point is simple - these IP-stealing, design-copying, rip-off phones from Chinese companies sold below cost are NOT hurting Apple, but are *killing* Samsung, etc.

Sure they are cool and seem awesome ... just like the pseudo Michael Kors bag my wife bought for $30 on Canal St in NYC.

 

[DArtagnan]

If the product serves its purpose, I don't see why it's a problem that it's killing a more expensive product that serves the same purpose.

That said, I don't think it'll harm Apple or iPhones. People don't buy those products because they need them, but because they want them. Quite a different beast.

 

[txa1265]

If the product serves its purpose, I don't see why it's a problem that it's killing a more expensive product that serves the same purpose.

That said, I don't think it'll harm Apple or iPhones. People don't buy those products because they need them, but because they want them. Quite a different beast.

Exactly - and the same is true with things like the latest Galaxy S series, Edge or Note ... there isn't much that you begin to claim to 'need' in the latest version when last year's models are so very capable.

Last year when I pulled out my old Galaxy S3 to put it through the paces ... and it remains a very good phone - sure some of the Android warts are more obvious now, but there is no reason that wouldn't work for pretty much anyone.

Personally I used Android for many years until we got iPhones for my wife and kids, and then I got one as well ... then so did pretty much our whole extended family. Last year I bought a Galaxy Note 3 and wanted to move back to Android, but iOS is like a virus (or like Google stuff) in how once you get a big mass of people on the platform it is just too painful to switch away ...

But Idefinitely see the value in maintaining multiple platforms - Mac, PC & Linux, Android tablets and iOS phones. There is merit to all of them

 

[GothicGothicness]

Whatever. I won't do you research for you …

And it isn't the point, not in the least.

My point is simple - these IP-stealing, design-copying, rip-off phones from Chinese companies sold below cost are NOT hurting Apple, but are *killing* Samsung, etc.

Sure they are cool and seem awesome … just like the pseudo Michael Kors bag my wife bought for $30 on Canal St in NYC.

Well, I am genuinely interested in what it is, so if you at least send me some link or such so I can research it! The only thing I ever heard is that this problem existed in android 2.2 vs iOS 5 or something like that.... never heard it applies for newer phones.

 

[sakichop]

I don't know what is up with your iOS love, I have an old android phone and I have been comparing it to the iPhone 6 which has much better specs, and I don't notice this much better "iOS" perfomance you keep on about.

You won't notice a difference just comparing them, but use both for years and you definitely will.

I have always had iPads but an android phone. I like the freedom of choosing between the 2.

Right now I have an iPad Air 2 and a nexus 6. They're both great devices, both have adequate battery and both have about the same number of crashes which is to say both have very few.

The big difference comes in when you start using apps. Apple hands down has better quality apps. ( of the ones I use obviously) even the same app by the same people is laid out and functions better on iOS. I can't think of one app I use that I don't prefer on iOS.

Google maps is better than Apple maps but I can run google maps on my iOS so it's a moot point.

I am not an apple fan either. I would love to see anyone top them so I could use them instead. I'm actually not brand loyal at all, I think it's stupid to like something just because of its brand. I will try out everything and pick what works best for me. I'm really not that big of a fan of android either.

Also not a big Microsoft fan but I wouldn't mind seeing them produce a real windows phone. The thought of having all my devices unified is appealing but I can't find any one OS I like enough to tie all my devices to. Of course I'm sure they'd tie it to xbone which would be a major downer.

As for these cheap phones, I have no interest. Mobile tech moves to fast for me to purchase something that's under powered when I buy it.