PC Gamer - Bioware and Sex

On one hand, this sort of injection of social responsibility and representation is simply a way of having a form of media catch up with how the world really is, yet on the other, I've never been particularly convinced that Bioware can pull it off in a way that helps anyone - their writing just isn't subtle enough.

The only problem I have with this is if it is done so obvious that it breaks immersion.

For example, I find it incredibly implausible if a warrior coming from a purely male-driven, war-oriented, male-mounts-female and just generally macho-like society suddenly just accepts other sexual orientations.

In such cases, it becomes in-your-face-obvious that it was just included for the sake of "inclusion", thus breaking immersion. At least for me.
And I do not really trust BioWare to pull this off without that exact effect.

The Spartans were alright with it. Doesn't get much more macho than that lot!

It's not new. As far as I remember, sex was an option in Ultima 7.5. Not very explicit, but it was there. There even was the option of same sex sex. As far as I remember.

And if you consider games art, as some do (I don't, at least I think it's rare), there should be room for aspects beyond mere entertainment.

Pibbur who isn't interested in game sex at all, but has no problem just ignoring it.

TheSHEEEP said:

For example, I find it incredibly implausible if a warrior coming from a purely male-driven, war-oriented, male-mounts-female and just generally macho-like society suddenly just accepts other sexual orientations..

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1- Et tu TheSHEEEP? I thought that you should know better. Fantasy world doesn't have to be realistic. It has to be consistent within itself.
Besides, as Ripper pointed out, ancient world was mostly ok with homosexuality. And, I suspect, there was a similar percentage of gay knights as that of gay soldiers in a modern army. And kings whose sexual partners of choice were male rather than female?

Arkadia7 said:

It's a pet peeve of mine. I don't want to get into it, but I see an increasing number of messages put in all forms of media, and now its starting in rpg games too. Basically, its political correctness overload, and its telling people what they should think. I am sensitive to these things, and its a form of thought control in my opinion. This is much more of a political topic, so I will leave it there. But I can see this influence all around, and its a personal concern of mine, even in the supposedly land of freedom and free thought, America.

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Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it's a form of thought control to try and resist these elements from entering our media? This works both ways, you know. Homosexuality is something that has always existed, yet historically, it's been deliberately air brushed out of the picture (or worse). What kind of message does that send?

Secondly, and to make a wider point, I don't see what the problem is with wanting to pursue positive change in society, and have never understood why to be considered "politically correct" is considered to be such an an insult. Ever read any Charles Dickens? His works are full issues he tried to raise regarding the treatment of the poor and underprivileged, and yet nobody calls him "politically correct." Don't like Dickens, then try George Orwell, John Steinbeck, Harper Lee, Mark Twain... the list goes on.

My only problem with sex/sexuality or relationships in games is that it is usually so poorly done.

In my experience, at best, it is ham fisted and awkwardly presented. At worst, it can be insultingly bad. I wouldn't mind it at all, if it were well done. It could really add depth, immersion (and motivation) to the games story, if it were properly done.

Kyrer said:

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it's a form of thought control to try and resist these elements from entering our media? This works both ways, you know.

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You are bang on the money, Kryer.

The truth, if someone would just spit it out, is that some people are reacting strongly to Bioware's inclusion of homosexual relationships, because they have strong political and religious objections. But they've realized that this doesn't play very well, so they've tried to turn it around.

When a writer includes gay relationships in a drama, this can be explained by saying he has simply made an artistic choice to address one of the many realities of human life, as might be expected. Occam's Razor applies - the assumption that he is doing it because he has a political agenda is arbitrarily adding a further condition, making this explanation less probable than the simpler explanation.

But because the complainants don't want to be upfront about stating their political motives, they try to make it appear that it's the inclusion of these natural elements that is the political act, and that they are merely "gamers" who don't want "politics" in their games.

It is highly disingenuous, and quite transparent.

Yeah… I don't have anything against gays but… I don't have anything against women in positions of power but…

Some of you are just ridiculously transparent in your prejudices / politics of exclusion. There is absolutely nothing remotely resembling indoctrination about simply including gay characters in a game or giving players the option to pursue homosexual relationships in a game. This isn't about immersion or political correctness (this is a fantasy world where people can shoot fireballs from their fingertips and some have a harder time accepting that some dudes like other dudes / chicks like other chicks?). What this is really about is homophobes not wanting "teh gays" invading their games.

The kinds of "political correctness" I don't want to see in games / media would be where writers intentionally sanitize language so as not to offend the prudish and puritanical. For ex: if a character finds themselves in a situation where a real person would swear, I don't want to see them saying something like "Oh fiddlesticks!" Intentionally excluding homosexuality from games would also be a form of "political correctness"; just one that caters to the politics of bigotry and so called "morals" of the religious right.

Yes, it's true that Bioware uses every opportunity to praise themselves for this and no, including sexuality is not a substitute for good writing. And recent Bioware games have seriously suffered in the writing department, especially when it comes to the romance. It's an obvious marketing strategy, but I'll take a marketing strategy that appeals to equality over one that appeals to bigotry and religious idiocy any day.

Personally I doubt I'll ever buy DA:I because DA2 was so terrible and more importantly I don't do "origin".

ouch!
albeit with a tldr wall of text, that guy just burned you motherfuckers to the ground

bravo, good sir

If we get some sort of sub-codexian backlash, I'll show you a wall of text.

Kyrer said:

have never understood why to be considered "politically correct" is considered to be such an an insult.

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Well, being politically correct is insult, if "politically correct group" insult anyone who is not politically correct enough. If they dont listen and dont respect ideas and creative vision of devs.

I doubt that Charles Dickens did that. To make your opinion look as the only acceptable truth (and make arrogant claim all others are evil) is different attitude than teach others to open their minds.

Hadoken13 said:

A genuinely good RPG story does not need sex to make the story good. EA is simply using this as a crutch to bolster up a poor story.

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You don't play and didn't play DA3.
And it's visible from another galaxy.

Humanity has risen! said:

Videogames are about the gameplay, not the story. Everything about the story is tangential and ancillary in comparison. Bioware takes it to the nth degree and it becomes a gigantic distraction.

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Will you please keep your hands on consoles and phones only?
Please?
I don't care what crap on consoles and phones they sell to you, so please stop caring about rich story games they sell us on PC. Thankyou in advance.


And to others… I really really don't know what's the fuss about.
You don't have to romance nor to sex anyone in the game. It's purely optional and has nothing with the rest of the story.

But IMO, in this game, it's welldone.
You're not sure. Okay, try this for example.
Play a male hero, build up your relation with Sera then "when the moment is right" try to romance her. Yea, she's not a likable character. Or maybe she is? Who cares, just try to get to her.
Then return here. Can't wait to read your thoughts after you do that.

Farflame said:

To make your opinion look as the only acceptable truth (and make arrogant claim all others are evil) is different attitude than teach others to open their minds.

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Well, I can't speak for Kyrer, but I didn't read any "arrogant claim all others are evil" in what he wrote.

I'm not calling anyone evil at this point, either. I'm saying people should just be honest about their position, and about which party has the political agenda.

Ripper said:

Well, I can't speak for Kyrer, but I didn't read any "arrogant claim all others are evil" in what he wrote.

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I also didnt write that he personally claimed that. Word "your" in not related to him. I could write "To make own/some opinion look…"

Ripper said:

You are bang on the money, Kryer.

The truth, if someone would just spit it out, is that some people are reacting strongly to Bioware's inclusion of homosexual relationships, because they have strong political and religious objections. But they've realized that this doesn't play very well, so they've tried to turn it around.

When a writer includes gay relationships in a drama, this can be explained by saying he has simply made an artistic choice to address one of the many realities of human life, as might be expected. Occam's Razor applies - the assumption that he is doing it because he has a political agenda is arbitrarily adding a further condition, making this explanation less probable than the simpler explanation.

But because the complainants don't want to be upfront about stating their political motives, they try to make it appear that it's the inclusion of these natural elements that is the political act, and that they are merely "gamers" who don't want "politics" in their games.

It is highly disingenuous, and quite transparent.

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Not in the least, there are games which have included homosexual characters without doing it in such a cringe worthy manner. It really is the exaggerated sexualization and politicization of Bioware offerings that is ridiculous.

When there are times and scenes where they might as well display MESSAGE in blinking letters then these are just shoddy scenes all around of poor artistic quality. And the politicizing does exist, there are quotes out there from the developers out there to prove it.

Don't you think that including a character who sneakily reveals he is into stuff like BSDM is going far and is out of place? The nigh totality of the customers just want to play and have fun, not be continuously confronted to weird scenes.

Can you link to where Bioware lays out their political agenda?

Would you like me to link to the places where you lay out yours?

I don't know why people continue to give Humanity has risen the time of day. He has proven time and time again to be a troll with horrifically horrible antiquated beliefs. I'm not sure if he believes them or not, but either way he is much better off on the ignore list.