Shroud of the Avatar - Interview with Garriott

I remember when I first heard about the initial kickstarter for Shroud - I was elated ! Garriott, one of my teenage heroes coming back and doing an MMO in the world of Britannia, that would put UO to shame. As with any kickstarter, I read, and I read, and I read, and I looked at the product, in detail. And I watched, over time to see how it evolved. And boy, how I was disappointed. This game was pure shit. For all of Garriott's bumming and blowing about how great this trip back to Britannia would be, it was just one big arm into people's pockets, plain and simple. I marvel at how many suckers he has sucked in. This article really shows Garriott for the arrogant twat he really is.
 
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I remember when I first heard about the initial kickstarter for Shroud - I was elated ! Garriott, one of my teenage heroes coming back and doing an MMO in the world of Britannia, that would put UO to shame. As with any kickstarter, I read, and I read, and I read, and I looked at the product, in detail. And I watched, over time to see how it evolved. And boy, how I was disappointed. This game was pure shit. For all of Garriott's bumming and blowing about how great this trip back to Britannia would be, it was just one big arm into people's pockets, plain and simple. I marvel at how many suckers he has sucked in. This article really shows Garriott for the arrogant twat he really is.

Yes its sad really. Even people who like MMO's don't seem to like it (I don't). Its appears to be forever ongoing development mixed in with cash shop items and community dance parties :rolleyes:
 
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Everyone should go to the Polygon page, scroll down and read the (long) comment by Titler. Nuff said!
 
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The thing that pisses me off most about Shroud is that it sucked all the air from the room for a more deserving successor to UO--Shards Online.

Shards Online is, straight up, the new UO, designed for the "free server" crowd to be flexible and modable. It is the vessel through which creative and dedicated individuals can tell their own stories, create their own servers, and run their own worlds.

I am psyched for it to reach early access on Steam, so that I can start designing my own world on a game that plays similar to UO, but significantly more modern.
 
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So people who did not like it were asked to shut up.
Sounds so different from what people demand on this site.
Well, we also liked rune when he was still defending the game :)
 
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That must have been before this site was turned into a platform to bash this product and the dev team behind the project.
 
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Nah, this site was still a platform to bash that god-fucking-awful product and dev team back then. It's just that rune_74 was all contrarian at the time.
 
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But you are still allowed to like the game Chien.
 
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Ungrounded claim since likes and dislikes are not reported.

There is nothing allowed since there is nothing to forbid. People on power trip must sometimes face that power has its own limits.
 
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Everyone should go to the Polygon page, scroll down and read the (long) comment by Titler. Nuff said!
I'll re-post it here as Titler said everything I wanted to.

As this game is nothing but a money scam.:mad:

Let me open with a personal story.

I can still clearly remember, on a grey wintery day in the early 1990s, being sat in front of my Commodore Amiga, wired up to an old second hand portable television, and playing Ultima V; the prior game had been only my second ever RPG but it had left a deep, indelible impression upon me with its far more adult, meaningful morality than could be found in the rest of medium of the time. With how it encouraged you to lead a virtuous life, that the Quest of the Avatar was forever, rather than just a victory point you reached and well done, a winner is you…


At the exact moment of memory, I was using the included Journal to trace my way through the Underworld and follow in Lord British’s footsteps; not just because it was one of the goals of the game to rescue him, but also because it was a lovely piece of design, a sense of actual connection with a shared, if imaginary history. Here I was, holding the actual physical Journal! But even deeper still, because in some strange way, I wanted to thank Lord British for what he’d taught me. I wanted to bring him, and the values he symbolised, back into the world above.


At some point during these experiences, I heard the unexpected sound of a car on the road outside. It was my parents, who never normally visited, and certainly not unannounced. They had come to tell me my Grandfather had just died. And I remember how, when the funeral was over, and I had time to go back to simple escapism, Ultima V helped me through the emotions ahead.
Which is why today, Shroud of the Avatar is such an unbelievably painful disappointment. If I met Richard Garriott in real life, perhaps I’d like him personally. Perhaps I’d even thank him for all the pleasure, and yes even support his prior games have given me. But for a game that at the Kickstarter pledged itself to be the "Spiritual Successor" to Ultima, there is nothing of the Virtues within them.


To make sure we’re all on the same page here, this is what the Kickstarter was when it was announced.


Now let’s look at the actual facts; Critics of the game didn’t understand what the Kickstarter was? How heart breaking is it when someone who taught us that Honesty was a Virtue can lie, if only to himself, and think that’s honestly even close to the truth? Look at just how much of what we were promised turned out to not be true in the final game;
"Since then, most every other RPG has focused more on level grinding than on "role playing", which has been reduced to a few initial character choices. While advancements in graphics and sound have been phenomenal, in many ways the virtual worlds we play in have become less real. Less open. Less immersive"​
The actual gameplay, outside of Real Money Trading and purchasing house decoration in the Add On Store is nothing but level grinding. There’s no "immersive" world because there’s no way to interact with it like Ultima (especially 7 or UO); it’s designed like World of Warcraft where you cannot drop items into the world, or interact with them outside of specially coded quests. There is no way to drop a sign on Lord British’s head or poison his bread because you literally don’t have that much freedom.
"Once players are introduced to the game, they will discover their own story woven into the immersive world and lore surrounding them. Players may choose to follow the life of the adventurer or, if they prefer, focus on exploration and discovery."​
The quest lines are all fixed, generic to everyone… and still only 1/3rd completed so far. Every character has both Crafting and Adventure XP bars and can be both at once. There is no "exploration" or "discovery" at all because the scenes are all small scale, fixed instances.
"Deep original fiction – Ethical parables, cultural histories, fully developed alternate language text"​
And this is where the game goes from being just badly designed to being an outright ethical scandal.


You were promised, as part of the Kickstarter rewards, a copy of the fiction in the form of the Novel "Blade of the Avatar", written by Garriott and Tracy Hickman. But after they’d sent out the .pdfs of the novel, and because they keep running out of money, Portalarium decided that they’d release a second version of the novel, with 4 more chapters… Oh, they blamed the publishers for why prior backers now weren’t getting the full lore, but had no difficulty at all in double charging people for those extra chapters, as well as declaring it would soon be a Trilogy of books.


Elsewhere in the Pledges, "Design your own NPC, with their own conversations!" got downgraded to "Name your own NPC".
And then they started adding arbitrary cut off dates for Pledges, so anyone not upgrading before then didn’t even get the same upgrade path. Now the reward system is an ungodly, complicated mess which needs a spreadsheet to work through. Look at those footnotes, I mean, just look at them!


But here’s a simple way to understand how it works; The Shroud community recently congratulated themselves for helping a poor soul with Stage IV Colon Cancer. And that’s a good thing! A fine example of Compassion, and I truly mean that. What absolutely isn’t a virtue is the fact that because he has to downgrade his account now, an account he spent $25,000 on, he’ll lose all the benefits of that account even if he pulls through and can reinvest the same figure back in again. The game isn’t "Launched" yet, remember. There’s no reason why he can’t still be seen as a backer. And it’s all because Portalarium, desperate to keep people invested, and encourage people to raise their pledges before cut off dates, have deliberately designed the system to be literally Feudally unfair to anyone who doesn’t have the ability, or just can’t keep investing any further.
And it gets worse.


When Portalarium signed up for the Kickstarter Terms and Conditions, they committed to asking for the amount of money they believed could finish their product, as well as all the rewards. We now know they deliberately lied about how much they actually needed, just to "get out of the pickle" they found themselves in at the time. 3 years later, and a further $10,000,000 they still haven’t completed even Episode 1, and now are brazenly stating that unless a second Kickstarter succeeds, they won’t move on to Episode 2.


And the remaining community’s reaction to that? "Oh good! As long as you let me have more exclusive content for backing it a second time!" Portalarium made a legal commitment to at least try and give you the promised rewards of Episodes 2 – 5, and they just walk away from it, whilst the backers rub their hands and hope for more ways to make real profit from that.
It keeps getting worse; back to those Kickstarter quotes.
Player housing:<

Player housing will live in the persistent shared world, so real estate will have location value….​
Let’s just cut to the chase on this one;


Player housing requires a Lot for the location, and a Housing Deed for the house. Currently, nearly 6 months after the Land Rush of Kickstarter etc Backers ended, the lot is still only available in the Add On Store for real money. Sure, there are now monthly lotteries to perhaps win one, but Real Money Trading for gold, to allow you to buy more tickets, is also legal… so good luck getting one!


This is literally again putting the needs of RMTs ahead of actual game design, indeed, when the RMTs attempted to fix the very first lottery, and then Portalarium said they were minded to add free tickets for normal backers, they howled so much about it that the free tickets were removed in under a day.
Here is the Official RMT of Shroud of the Avatar, Markee Dragon complaining about how unfair it was that people who hadn’t donated tens of thousands to the game had a chance of getting a home. Seriously. He really does.
If you’re going to enter in the…the…the…the ‘other players’ for this, the players who don’t own land, then what are you doing for the people who do own land so there’s an equal distribution out to everybody?​
Markee Dragon of course often visits Portalarium’s offices to discuss how to design the economy by the way; Remember when you donated blood to the Healers, and gold coins to the beggars in Ultima? Apparently we’re supposed to be donating to the Rich now.
And the lack of virtue doesn’t stop. Remember this from the original Kickstarter?
The results of all crafting elements have value as consumables and components in the combat system, as well as maintenance and upgrade elements for housing and cities.​
Well item repairs now are tied too… are you ready for this…? A PREMIUM CURRENCY. Yes, we were promised time and time again back in the day that the game would be Buy To Own, with no microtransactions because those ruined games. You can see such a claim in another Lord British interview here, for instance.
The part that is not good for players, but has been good for the companies that made a lot of these games, is how to squeeze money out of ‘free-to-play’. And that’s the part we are avoiding like the plague. It is actually a good monetization strategy to take a ‘free-to-play’ game and fill it with tons of microtransactions, and then tons of ways to leverage you, to try to convince you to either start making microtransactions, or spam all of your friends to hopefully find one of them to make microtransactions. And while that’s proven to be a very successful business model, I don’t think it makes for very good games. And since we’re trying to create a ‘gamer’s game’, we’re going to avoid that monetization strategy.​
Yet now you’ve got a B2O game designed in F2P ways with MACROtransactions AND a Premium Currency. A currency that even gives P2W advantages (via the potions of obsidian, how does 50% more stamina for 7 days sound eh?), as well as which warps the basic gameplay so even crafting repairs are expected to need the benefits of premium spending.


And that’s before we get to the time where Portalarium’s own staff were caught quietly posting positive Steam reviews to try and avoid the ratings tanking.


And what about all the times that they’ve deliberately allowed harassment of and banned critics of the games from their forums? Unlike Portalarium, I’ll stand by my comments publicly, so I’ll say here that’s my personal story again: But years later, and this time of my removal from the Steam forums because I tried to warn people of scams and deceptive comments.


Do you remember how you once taught us to defend the poor, uphold personal honesty, act fairly in all our dealings with our fellow man? Your latest game now bans you from the community if you try and put those lessons into practice.
I wonder if you even know that’s how your former, true fans feel, and how they are being treated today?


And even what happens to the villains we once were told to avoid becoming in Ultima V; one former Lord Blackthorn, who was involved in that harassment of me was only banned from the Steam community when he changed his view of the game to negative as well.


Indeed even claiming that Portalarium is leaking personal information to you about people’s families, and using that to threaten critics of the game is entirely acceptable, and laughed off as "just throwing stuff out there" when reported to the Community Moderators! If only he’d "just thrown out there" he was about to be employed as said Mod when he put up a positive Steam review too…
Meanwhile, the same individual claiming to be defending the game by making people afraid for their family remains not just uncensored, but is allowed to open discuss claims a previous Moderator supposedly made about a PM he claimed another critical individual had sent.


And I could go on and on and on… But let’s stop here and ask again; are we former backers really just completely ignorant then of what the initial Kickstarter was about? Or is it really the case that Shroud of the Avatar is nothing like what we were promised, and has nothing to do with the "Spirit of Ultima"? That the game wasted not just our money, but tore our heart out after decades of believing in the worth of Lord British… whilst sociopaths and scammers run rampant over a game that should in all honesty be renamed Shroud of John Galt.


And for most other people, is just frankly a crap game anyway?
 
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There is nothing allowed since there is nothing to forbid.
We forbid quite a number of things on this site, disliking (or linking) a game is just not one of them.
People on power trip must sometimes face that power has its own limits.
I'll consider that, once you will come to the conclusion that your opinions are just that and not universal truths.
 
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For real ? Are you either trolling or have your head stuck in a cloud ? I guess you are allow to express your opinion but this is the first post about that piece of junk shroud of avatar (my opinion) I've taken the time to read in a year. I read 3 or 4 post a day (fraction of what is posted) and only one on this piece of junk. I guess all those other posts were really about Shroud since this center around it but somehow I missed the connection.
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Ok I suck at satire but that's ok you seem to suck at common sense.

That must have been before this site was turned into a platform to bash this product and the dev team behind the project.
 
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Surprising and funny how ChienAboyer has suddenly become so worried about this crowdfunded developer who had done so many questionable things. He used to be so critical against them in the past.
 
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Ever since I came to the conclusion that ChienAboyeur must be a really intricate ELIZA-type forum bot, his posts suddenly started to make sense to me. ;)
 
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Surprising and funny how ChienAboyer has suddenly become so worried about this crowdfunded developer who had done so many questionable things. He used to be so critical against them in the past.

People these days have troubles with chronology.

Indeed, crowdfunding ways were pointed out before SotA was released.

This allows to tell that SotA is just another crowdfunded project, no different from others. There is no change, only continuity. One simple standard. There is nothing surprising in this.

Now crowdfunding ways as they were pointed were contested on this site.

Then SotA was released, and suddenly, there was a change in mind and SotA was blamed for things that previous crowdfunding projects were not.


Suddenly, it appears that a crowdfunding project deviating from his statement was not as cool as it was told.
It appears that censoring people who did not like a product was not that cool.
 
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We forbid quite a number of things on this site, disliking (or linking) a game is just not one of them.
Forbiding people from liking or disking a product is beyond the power exercized on this site. Quite the power trip.

What is done on this site is the censoring of certain views reporting dislikes.
That is different. People can like or dislike as they cant be prevented.
The expression of the disliking views, though, might be censore
I'll consider that, once you will come to the conclusion that your opinions are just that and not universal truths.
There is no use for universal truths.
All that is needed is to notice that this site, like the other site pointed in the thread, censors disliking points of views.
That is all what is needed. No universal truths.
 
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Mheanwhile+at+sota+its+all+drama_cdd8e5_6006392.gif
 
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