Fallout 4 - A Final Goodbye

MigRib said:

Wasteland 2 comes to my mind when I think of a perfect exemple of what could be compared to fan fiction.

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I just played FO4 and Wasteland 2 DC back-to-back and personally I'd say WL2's writing was a lot more interesting and fun than FO4's, overall just a hell of a lot better. I actually wanted to read everything in WL2, rather than just skip past a lot of it like in FO4.

Granted, I'm not sure if you would count FO4's writers in the "professional writers" group you're praising so much anyway...it has certainly never felt as if Bethesda employed professional writers.

MigRib said:

I didn't write that, did I? But you are not above distorting others posts if it fits your objective, right?

I just said that a couple of young computer nerds aren't expected to have better writing skills than people who write for a living.

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I know what you said and I'll repeat it isn't necessarily true… look around you …. nowadays most indie titles are being received much better than certain over-hyped AAA titles… Why do you think that is? Jesus it's like I'd get more understanding out of granite

MigRib said:

luj1 said:

MigRib said:

There's one thing I must admit the Bethesda-hating-trolls have: they are unusually stubborn. They won't give up. They'll shoot in all directions, they'll search for every thread, every post about the games they hate and they will persist until everybody else gives up. I'm giving up for now. See you later.

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If you want to get better titles eventually you ought to up your standards as a consumer and stop defending shit products and companies that are manipulating you …. Don't be a Bethesda bleeding-heart drone brigade that will joyously swallow anything with a famous brand on it….If someone is hatin' its probably due to being forced to watch their childhood franchise monetized and ripped apart… It's a love thing.

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Yeah, yeah, right. But don't expect me to take your word for it. You are not the type I would take recomendations seriously. Take care, don't hate too much, it's bad for your health.

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w/e ….

You see, Old-School games are not inherently superior than modern games,not at all,they had their glaring problems too.
The problem for me is the practices that are followed today by a lot of publishers and almost all the big ones.
Instead of trying to make the best game they can in order to achieve good sale numbers,they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Instead of putting out expansions that significantly enrich the base game ,they try to gauge how little content they can put in a DLC for people to be willing to pay or what part of the game to cut out and sell seperately later(Bioshock 2's Minerva's Den and Mass Effect 3 Prothean DLC are prime examples that come to mind).
That is the bottom line for me and that's why i am harsh when it comes to big publishers.

Archangel said:

Voice acting is usually bad and limits games due to its cost. It also made players get used to not reading.

Background of the development team?! What are you about? I don't care if the game was made by monkey if the game is good. Newer fallout are surely not a sign of that.

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Voice acting is usually bad, but I will take it instead of walls of text (that's what happens when there's no voice acting, too much text) except when it's really, really bad (e.g the first Raven's Cry was too bad, not only because the voice actors were bad, but because it was lacking a few audio files). As for reading, people should read books, not video games. Video games, like cinema, are an audiovisual medium.

Japol said:

The problem for me is the practices that are followed today by a lot of publishers and almost all the big ones.
Instead of trying to make the best game they can in order to achieve good sale numbers,they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

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Your definition of "best game" and the unwashed masses' definition of "best game" are probably quite different. Thing is, when you go balls-to-the-wall with graphics/sound/voice acting, you're forced to appeal to the masses, which means the lowest common denominator, as you put it. It's the only way to make enough revenue to pay down your budget for graphics/VO and still make a good profit.

luj1 said:

I know what you said and I'll repeat it isn't necessarily true… look around you …. nowadays most indie titles are being received much better than certain over-hyped AAA titles… Why do you think that is? Jesus it's like I'd get more understanding out of granite



w/e ….

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I understand what you think. Thing is:
1) I don't agree with what you think
2) I'm not an idiot being manipulated by corporate enterprises, as you already implied. I like what I like, and I know why I like it.
3) I don't want to be forced to think like you
4) I won't be forced to think like you
5) I Do not want YOU to think like I do. I really don't care. Hate what you want. Love what you like. Play what it's fun for you. But don't tell me that you do not go after certain themes (like Bethesda's games) with the sole objective of creating discussions. Most without a real purpose. That's obvious.

MigRib said:

As for reading, people should read books, not video games. Video games, like cinema, are an audiovisual medium.

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Says who? That is a completely ridiculous claim. Ever heard of text adventure games? There's no reason that video games need to be voice acted. Books aren't, and people enjoy them just fine. How do you figure a video game has to be more closely related to a movie than a book?

Back in the day, I played plenty of "video games" that had no sound at all (besides maybe beeps and bloops), and enjoyed them just fine.

MigRib said:

As for reading, people should read books, not video games.

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Personally, I don't think video gaming will ever be such a black and white separation.
To be honest, I think you're unnecessarily creating a false dichotomy with this statement which actively limits the potentiality of video games; particularly deep RPGs, where reading is often essential. Rich, descriptive text will always have its place that no graphics can fully convey. Furthermore, being prescriptive about what people "should" be doing probably isn't a good idea.

Stingray said:

Says who? That is a completely ridiculous claim. Ever heard of text adventure games? There's no reason that video games need to be voice acted. Books aren't, and people enjoy them just fine.

Back in the day, I played plenty of "video games" that had no sound at all (besides maybe beeps and bloops), and enjoyed them just fine.

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Back in the day they had to be like that, isn't that right? With the exception of text adventure games (which I never played, I would rather play the books that inspired that stuff), even back in the day video games were an audiovisual medium because youn could hear the bleeps and blops. The only ridiculous thing is to deny the evolution. If technology evolved, it's perfectly normal games have adopted it, be it in graphics, be it in audio. You don't like voice acting? Fine, you can always turn down the voices so you can't hear them.

huh

I rank them 1, then 2, then New Vegas, then 4, then 3. And I mostly still enjoyed 3. Yes, post 2 is not the same game and barely the same setting - so what? I'd rather have had an Interplay Fallout 3 as well, but that didn't happen.

MigRib said:

Back in the day they had to be like that, isn't that right? With the exception of text adventure games (which I never played, I would rather play the books that inspired that stuff), even back in the day video games were an audiovisual medium because youn could hear the bleeps and blops. The only ridiculous thing is to deny the evolution. If technology evolved, it's perfectly normal games have adopted it, be it in graphics, be it in audio. You don't like voice acting? Fine, you can always turn down the voices so you can't hear them.

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Personally, any game I play I turn on subtitles and read all text. I do leave the voice volume on, but I read stuff fairly fast and always skip to the next line once I'm done. So most of the voice doesn't play anyway, and the bit that does, I mostly ignore subconsciously. Your imagination does a better job of the voices anyway. Voice acting in games is a huge waste of money for me.

Pessimeister said:

Personally, I don't think video gaming will ever be such a black and white separation.
To be honest, I think you're unnecessarily creating a false dichotomy with this statement which actively limits the potentiality of video games; particularly deep RPGs, where reading is often essential. Rich, descriptive text will always have its place that no graphics can fully convey. Furthermore, being prescriptive about what people "should" be doing probably isn't a good idea.

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OK, we disagree with the first point, nothing wrong about that.
On the second one... Well, you see, being prescritive about what I should and should not like is what a lot of people are trying constantly to do around here, so I might as well try it once in a while about a whole different thing (reading, in this case).

Thing is, there's a lot of us who actually like games that are heavy on the game part, rather than just "cinema" disguised as games. If you're only into the latter, that's cool, there's plenty of blockbuster AAA 10/10 GOTY cinematic dorito-fests for you to enjoy. I will play those, too, but they aren't my main cup of tea.

Stingray said:

Personally, any game I play I turn on subtitles and read all text. I do leave the voice volume on, but I read stuff fairly fast and always skip to the next line once I'm done. So most of the voice doesn't play anyway, and the bit that does, I mostly ignore subconsciously. Your imagination does a better job of the voices anyway. Voice acting in games is a huge waste of money for me.

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I'm all for voice acting, but even I do skip the voices if I am repeating a scene because I just died after the dialogue, for example. But I would never classify it as a waste of money. As for voiced protagonists, my opinion is a bit different. I think that in a non-cinematic game like Fallout it was better not having a voiced protagonist (there's too many types of character and no voice actor can cover them all). But in other games, like Mass Effect or Th Witcher, a voiced protagonist is also a plus.

MigRib said:

And most of the old games writing - when there was any writing at all (and when I say old, I mean old as in not only middle 90s but also early 90s amd early 80s) was as good as fan fic crap. A lot of the new retro-nostalgic games are on the same vein. Wasteland 2 comes to my mind when I think of a perfect exemple of what could be compared to fan fiction.

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Yeah, cause Stackpole is just a fan fic writer who doesn't know what he is doing. :/

"I can't write to save my life, but I get to judge the writing of others." Sounds like armchair quarterbacking to me...

Stingray said:

Thing is, there's a lot of us who actually like games, rather than just "cinema" disguised as games. If you're only into the latter, that's cool, there's plenty of blockbuster AAA 10/10 GOTY cinematic dorito-fests for you to enjoy. I will play those, too, but they aren't my main cup of tea.

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It depends which games you are putting in that category. But probably I enjoyed a few of them. I'm into RPGs (the ones you probably don't classify as RPGs, like the 3 newer Fallouts, the Mass Effect Trilogy, Deus Ex HR, for example), Telltale's latest adventure games, and also a few more cinematic games (but not Call of Duty or anything like that).

Merin said:

Yeah, cause Stackpole is just a fan fic writer who doesn't know what he is doing. :/

"I can't write to save my life, but I get to judge the writing of others." Sounds like armchair quarterbacking to me…

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Not quite a fan fiction writer, but it's not much better than that. Wrote a lot of "novels" inspired by pen & paper RPGs and other merchandising books. I hate those bloody things.

Stingray said:

…it has certainly never felt as if Bethesda employed professional writers.

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It has never felt as if they hired professional programmers either …. Skyrim was partially written in some horrid FPU code which was introduced with the Pentium 1 CPU rofl , and the developers at Bethesda, for some reason, compiled the game without using any of the optimization flags for release build…. Most, if not all, of the optimization are typically performed by compilers. To put it simply, a compiler is a program that can turn code into something a computer can understand. In other words, Bethesda, for whatever reason ( incompetent/lazy/overlooking ?) compiled Skyrim without optimizations enabled I hate to say it but they behave like typical lazy capitalist fucks who burn millions for marketing and PR, while failing to deliver even in the most basic fields… How can Skyrim be so unoptimized? Why are Bethesda using ancient, unoptimized slow code that makes the game run a lot worse? .. .Modders do 10x better job than Bethesda… remember the spears that were suposeddly impossible to implement? hahahaahha that's just the tip of the iceberg….. nowadays I don't play skyrim without 1238912389 mods, and I start with Skyrim Optimization Project or something like that

Lev said:

Why bother if you have much better games nowadays? They are much more comfortable, they are much more user friendly.

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If you're an old geezer then yeah, no offense… I call it the Ken Rolston syndrome…. older players are more into smooth , actiony, user-friendly gameplay, we youngsters grew up on superior , masochistic RPGs , where walls of text can crit for over 900 dmg.. That's completely fine

MigRib said:

Not quite a fan fiction writer, but it's not much better than that. Wrote a lot of "novels" inspired by pen & paper RPGs and other merchandising books. I hate those bloody things.

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You have a very odd definition of fan fiction if an established author of dozens of published works fits your definition. Just because someone is paid to write in an established mythos doesn't equate to being a fan fiction writer, you know?

Fan fiction != writing in a series established by others.

Of course, maybe I'm just defending the guy cause he was born in my home town... like Tim Seely.

MigRib said:

I understand what you think. Thing is:
1) I don't agree with what you think
2) I'm not an idiot being manipulated by corporate enterprises, as you already implied. I like what I like, and I know why I like it.
3) I don't want to be forced to think like you
4) I won't be forced to think like you
5) I Do not want YOU to think like I do. I really don't care. Hate what you want. Love what you like. Play what it's fun for you. But don't tell me that you do not go after certain themes (like Bethesda's games) with the sole objective of creating discussions. Most without a real purpose.


That's obvious.

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Obvious is that you need to come down pops… I tried reasoning with you but w/e .. Anger itself is not a problem.... The trouble arises when your anger becomes uncontrollable, and you lose control of your behavior. ..This loss of reason and rationality can result in all sorts of problems, including erratic behavior, violence, abuse, addictions and the inability to fully process reality.