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September 24th, 2018, 16:59
Chris Avellone was interviewed by Gamespot on why he is involved with Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

You've worked with established IPs, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II and Fallout: New Vegas for example. What exactly drew you to Pathfinder, and how different is it working on this game compared to others?

Chris Avellone: So, with Pathfinder, we used to run pen-and-paper sessions back at Obsidian, and what we did was actually have a campaign in an Ocean's Eleven-style. It was really cool! We just made an assortment of characters like a con-man illusionist and we try to pull off heists. That was the most recent Pathfinder game I played. I also played the card game, which I also loved. Just the idea of being able to do this really interested me because there hadn't really been a Pathfinder RPG in the computer space at all.

The other aspect was one thing I've always liked about Pathfinder. I feel that when they do their modules and adventure paths, they make a very conscious effort to create an other-world experience. When I read one of their adventures, rather than just seeing what they're giving me, I'm seeing all the possibilities they present the GM [Game Master], too. So, reading those adventures is sometimes a lot more fun than reading some older modules or other adventures for other systems, because it's giving you room to breathe.

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September 24th, 2018, 16:59
I'll probably pick this up unless it gets horrible reviews. I'm on a Mac for work reasons, but have been mostly gaming these days on my PS4. I know the Mac is not ideal, but I just don't have time/money/space for a dedicated gaming PC. Someday I will.

The Avellone name doesn't influence me much one way or another these days, TBH.
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September 24th, 2018, 17:30
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
The Avellone name doesn't influence me much one way or another these days, TBH.
I can see that, alot of his freelance contributions recently simply amounted to "additional writing."
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September 24th, 2018, 18:55
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
I'll probably pick this up unless it gets horrible reviews.
It's going to get horrible reviews.

Look at all the negatives:
- Russian-made
- complex game mechanics with lots of numbers and choices
- 100+ hours of content
- old school pnp story and characters
- involved combat that requires the player to pay attention to what is going on
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September 24th, 2018, 20:07
I love Chris's interviews, this one is no exception. The game is sounding great and I look forward to the goblin character.
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September 24th, 2018, 21:36
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
It's going to get horrible reviews.

Look at all the negatives:
- Russian-made
- complex game mechanics with lots of numbers and choices
- 100+ hours of content
- old school pnp story and characters
- involved combat that requires the player to pay attention to what is going on
It might as I remember when every European RPG got lower scores from journalists. Of course that was before Kickstarter, and the whole Old-School RPG renaissance.

Yet the more I think about it's definitely possible.
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September 24th, 2018, 21:40
It's only at risk of getting bad user reviews if it's buggy.

Critics wont blast it too much because it's based on a P&P game.
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September 24th, 2018, 21:57
It's more the content and the source material that concerns me. A while back I picked up the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide. I thought it was very poor. The world is like a theme park, with dinosaur land, robots and lasers land, the land of vampires and werewolves, and so on. I thought it was all very cheesy and generic.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:08
Yeah, the game looks fundamentally solid, but I have to agree the setting does seem somewhat generic. I've watched a lot of recent footage, and I'm just not seeing anything that makes me want to run out and get this anytime soon.

I'm also a little skeptical about the amount of content they claim and how much is unique vs repetitive filler. I can't see playing something like this for 120 hours.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:12
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
It's more the content and the source material that concerns me. A while back I picked up the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide. I thought it was very poor. The world is like a theme park, with dinosaur land, robots and lasers land, the land of vampires and werewolves, and so on. I thought it was all very cheesy and generic.
Having all sort of wacky stuff all over the place is the opposite of generic, but it is a theme park. What's wrong with cheesy?

Saying that, I found this Inner Sea World map to be awesome personally. I got it from this reddit post.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:15
I received that module/setting (The Inner Sea World Guide) free as part of my preorder pledge. Not sure I'm going to bother with it though.

I got my key for Kingmaker so I'm super excited at the moment!!!
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September 24th, 2018, 22:18
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yeah, the game looks fundamentally solid, but I have to agree the setting does seem somewhat generic. I've watched a lot of recent footage, and I'm just not seeing anything that makes me want to run out and get this anytime soon.

I'm also a little skeptical about the amount of content they claim and how much is unique vs repetitive filler. I can't see playing something like this for 120 hours.
As I mentioned many times, I spent 90 hours on beta alone and that's just first two chapters. It didn't feel repetitive for me at all. Each combat was tough and required proper strategy, kingdom building will take time, and the story was engaging.

Also, no one is forcing you to play for 120 hours. Main content is roughly about 40 hours.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:30
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
The world is like a theme park, with dinosaur land, robots and lasers land, the land of vampires and werewolves, and so on. I thought it was all very cheesy and generic.
That about sums up Pathfinder. It's an over-the-top parody of the Forgotten Realms.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:33
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
Having all sort of wacky stuff all over the place is the opposite of generic.
No, it isn't. It is rather like they've tried to shoehorn lots of different campaign settings into one world, each of them being extremely generic. To me, it makes the whole thing feel rather plastic and inert. Worlds like Middle Earth or Westeros have a coherent sense of place and history. This feels like a cheap copy of dozens of clichés, pasted onto a map.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:34
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
As I mentioned many times, I spent 90 hours on beta alone and that's just first two chapters. It didn't feel repetitive for me at all.
I refuse to believe a game can be 120 hours long and not feel repetitive. I've yet to play a game over 40 hours long that doesn't fall back on some repetitive design patterns.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:34
I played Baldur's Gate 1 for 100+ hours the two times I finished it. I imagine this game will be similar - slow, at-your-own-pace exploration, looking for secrets, questing here and there and spending time in the wildnerness and talking to people, finding people in the wilderness and also in cities. No doubt I'd get 100+ hours out of it if I get that far. Hour numbers in RPGs like these are not all strictly quest content and combat. You don't run from quest to quest or combat to combat, there's a lot of roaming in these games. Not to mention dungeons, etc..

Baldur's Gate also has a drastic switch mid-game where you go from mostly wildnerness exploration to a huge city, so that kept it fresh for me. There are tricks to make a longer game have new and exciting surprises. I'm sure Owlcat knows that and the game will not be a 100 hour continuous loop of the same thing.
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September 24th, 2018, 22:46
Can we talk about how stupid the developers are for not making this turn-based?
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September 24th, 2018, 23:07
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
Can we talk about how stupid the developers are for not making this turn-based?
Uh, no? Why would you want a huge Baldur's Gate clone to be turn-based? It would take 300 hours then. BG/IWD were great with RTWP combat and this game will be no different. For turn-based they'd have to lower the scope significantly and make a totally different game, i.e. a modern Goldbox Pool of Radiance or something (which, I think there is a market for and it would be cool, but this game ain't it.)
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September 24th, 2018, 23:10
I don't really have a strong view on the game itself, at this stage. I thought it looked quite interesting, which is why I had a look at the resource books, and was disappointed.

I mean, I expect most RPGs to be derivative to some degree, and Forgotten Realms certainly was in its day. But, there was quite a lot of imaginative and compelling stuff in the mix, too. I dug out a couple of old source books - some FR, and some Warhammer 40k. I was reading about the Underdark, the cultures of the Drow and the Mindflayers, and the Warp and its effects on mankind. It's all pretty good stuff.

The Pathfinder material is a poor substitute, IMO.
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September 24th, 2018, 23:14
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
Uh, no? Why would you want a huge Baldur's Gate clone to be turn-based? It would take 300 hours then. BG/IWD were great with RTWP combat and this game will be no different.
1. It's based on Pathfinder, which is a turn-based game

2. Baldurs Gate would of been better if it was turn-based like its source material. It was okay despite being RTwP, but not because of it.

For turn-based they'd have to lower the scope significantly
Why would they need to lower the scope? There's a lot of mechanics in turn-based Pathfinder that can't be translated into real-time. This is dumbed down if anything.
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