Shroud of the Avatar - Interview with Garriott

There have been many crowdfunding projects covered on this site and people have various views of them. For example many people liked Pillars of Eternity and considered it a good investment. Others hated it. There are plenty of back and forths on this forum. Another example of this is Shadowrun. Some people considered it low quality and called it a phone game, others thought it was great. Other crowdfunded games like Lords of Xulima have mostly positive threads, though there were many fewer backers. Then we have Jagged Alliance:Flashback, Unsung Story, and After Reset, which when they get discussions, have largely negative feedback. My point, ChienAboyeur, is that not all kickstarters get the same reception. But I think you know that. I think you like playing the devil's advocate.
 
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ChienAboyeur said:
Another round was fired.


So people who did not like it were asked to shut up.
Sounds so different from what people demand on this site.
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Ahh, so this is your attempt to attack me again?

Myrthos said:
Well, we also liked rune when he was still defending the game :)
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To be fair, I was banking on them doing what they said they would….but man, the crap they put me through.


Dez said:
Surprising and funny how ChienAboyer has suddenly become so worried about this crowdfunded developer who had done so many questionable things. He used to be so critical against them in the past.
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This isn't even about the game, it's about me. There seems to be issues with him.


Complete crazy here…
ChienAboyeur said:
That must have been before this site was turned into a platform to bash this product and the dev team behind the project.
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ChienAboyeur said:
Ungrounded claim since likes and dislikes are not reported.

There is nothing allowed since there is nothing to forbid. People on power trip must sometimes face that power has its own limits.
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What is this nonsense?

ChienAboyeur said:
People these days have troubles with chronology.

Indeed, crowdfunding ways were pointed out before SotA was released.

This allows to tell that SotA is just another crowdfunded project, no different from others. There is no change, only continuity. One simple standard. There is nothing surprising in this.

Now crowdfunding ways as they were pointed were contested on this site.

Then SotA was released, and suddenly, there was a change in mind and SotA was blamed for things that previous crowdfunding projects were not.


Suddenly, it appears that a crowdfunding project deviating from his statement was not as cool as it was told.
It appears that censoring people who did not like a product was not that cool.
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No, I think you are wrong(As usual) no one is happy when something they bought is made totally different then what is sold….you don't expect a motorcycle when you bought a car.

As usual I have no idea the point Chein is trying to make other then being contrary now:)

EDIT: Titler and I have had many discussions about this game. He did a really outstanding writeup of what is really wrong here.
 
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Myrthos said:
Well, we also liked rune when he was still defending the game :)
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Well I admit I told rune_74 to shut up :)
All that optimism had no place in the spiraling cesspool that was SoTA post-KS!
 
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rune_74 said:
No, I think you are wrong(As usual) no one is happy when something they bought is made totally different then what is sold….you don't expect a motorcycle when you bought a car.
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No. That is what was called on this site listening to customers.
People are happy when a project that meant to deliver a car ends delivering a moppet because backers pushed for that change in direction. It showed that the project managers are open to suggestion and listen to customers.

This was the version defended until SotA came. Suddenly, this was no longer that cool as it used to be.

This is the past by the way. The new bone is that SotA devs are blamed to censor the expression of people who dislike their product.
This comment is made on a forum that show the same policy.

Sota devs, they get blamed for doing the same thing others get praised for.
 
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ChienAboyeur said:
No. That is what was called on this site listening to customers.
People are happy when a project that meant to deliver a car ends delivering a moppet because backers pushed for that change in direction. It showed that the project managers are open to suggestion and listen to customers.

This was the version defended until SotA came. Suddenly, this was no longer that cool as it used to be.

This is the past by the way. The new bone is that SotA devs are blamed to censor the expression of people who dislike their product.
This comment is made on a forum that show the same policy.

Sota devs, they get blamed for doing the same thing others get praised for.
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No, you are in make believe land that anyone was accepting of that before. Please provide an example where a one game type was sold on kickstarter and then changed afterwords to a MMO that people were happy with.

Yes, you seem to know everything and at the same time show that you are incredibly out of touch of the issues.
 
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So framed. Like asking to provide an example of a kickstarted product that has shroud and avatar in the title, and is directed by a guy who is behind the ultima series.

Beside, SotA was strongly leaning toward MMO from the beginning. No change in direction. The change in direction is how it came to shun the SP part.
 
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ChienAboyeur said:
So framed. Like asking to provide an example of a kickstarted product that has shroud and avatar in the title, and is directed by a guy who is behind the ultima series.

Beside, SotA was strongly leaning toward MMO from the beginning. No change in direction. The change in direction is how it came to shun the SP part.
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No. Wrong again. That may have been your feeling but that was the opposite of what they said...in the kickstarter they said it would not be an MMO.
 
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On this site, during the coverage of the associated KS, it was noted they were going the MMO path from the pledge thresholds they were added.
It was clear from the start.
What was not was the dropping of SP.
 
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ChienAboyeur said:
On this site, during the coverage of the associated KS, it was noted they were going the MMO path from the pledge thresholds they were added.
It was clear from the start.
What was not was the dropping of SP.
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Hey Chien, just so you know.. you are dead wrong.
The question was answered MULTIPLE times. Will this be mmo? Answer DURING ks was.. no, this will have an aspect of multiplayer but not mmo.
Answer AFTER ks was.. this will be mmo with single player aspect.

Really if you cant read there is no point arguing with you. Go look at the pledge tiers still saved, it was clear it was sold as SP.

I'm glad you adjusted so well to the new direction but don't fault those that did not.
 
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That's funny, I always thought the game was going to be a blend of single-player and multiplayer. "Selective multiplayer" as they called it, from single-player, to "selective" playing with friends and then a full MMO mode. I remember this being in the original pitch and I didn't follow the game that close.
 
Wisdom is spot on. From the Shroud of the Avatar Kickstarter FAQ, still viewable on Kickstarter:

Q: Will this be a MMO? Can I play with my friends?

A: Yes, you will be able to play with your friends! Multiplayer games encourage social bonds that go far beyond what can be accomplished in a solo player game. I remember the depth of these bonds in players who met in-game only to get married in real life, how people who died in the real world were deeply mourned and celebrated by their online friends whom they may never have met face to face. Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game. We will be describing this in more detail in our upcoming community blogs.


Meanwhile, on the current Shroud of the Avatar website (www.shroudoftheavatar.com), right at the top:

Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a fantasy RPG that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO created by a team that includes: Richard “Lord British” Garriott the creator of the Ultima series, Starr Long the Director of Ultima Online, and Tracy Hickman the author of Dragonlance
 
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Couch you never liked my posts….I feel hurt…

Chein will never admit he was wrong on this...
 
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Stingray said:
Wisdom is spot on. From the Shroud of the Avatar Kickstarter FAQ, still viewable on Kickstarter:

Q: Will this be a MMO? Can I play with my friends?

A: Yes, you will be able to play with your friends! Multiplayer games encourage social bonds that go far beyond what can be accomplished in a solo player game. I remember the depth of these bonds in players who met in-game only to get married in real life, how people who died in the real world were deeply mourned and celebrated by their online friends whom they may never have met face to face. Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game. We will be describing this in more detail in our upcoming community blogs.


Meanwhile, on the current Shroud of the Avatar website (www.shroudoftheavatar.com), right at the top:

Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a fantasy RPG that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO created by a team that includes: Richard “Lord British” Garriott the creator of the Ultima series, Starr Long the Director of Ultima Online, and Tracy Hickman the author of Dragonlance
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I blame the shift in direction on Starr Long, it all changed when he joined the team.
 
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So where did "Selective Multiplayer" come from? I distinctly remember there being 3 modes advertised for this game - single-player RPG, "selective" multiplayer (where you could play with just your friends), and then full MMO mode. Weird that that Kickstarter bit says it won't be an MMO, though. Weird indeed.
 
Fluent said:
So where did "Selective Multiplayer" come from? I distinctly remember there being 3 modes advertised for this game - single-player RPG, "selective" multiplayer (where you could play with just your friends), and then full MMO mode. Weird that that Kickstarter bit says it won't be an MMO, though. Weird indeed.
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This is where it gets a bit off....it was never going ti be fully MMO...it was going to have quite a few players when the fully online mode....but it wasn't really an MMO.
 
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rune_74 said:
Couch you never liked my posts….I feel hurt…

Chein will never admit he was wrong on this…
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There liked one of your post as I'm to lazy to write replies nowadays.:biggrin:
 
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rune_74 said:
This is where it gets a bit off….it was never going ti be fully MMO…it was going to have quite a few players when the fully online mode….but it wasn't really an MMO.
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Interesting. I had no idea. I just remember the selective multiplayer thing, but also that there was going to be a very strong single-player campaign as well. Has single-player officially been dropped?
 
Fluent said:
Interesting. I had no idea. I just remember the selective multiplayer thing, but also that there was going to be a very strong single-player campaign as well. Has single-player officially been dropped?
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No, but it keeps getting pushed to the back.

Some recent changes is no high level content for solo players when playing online solo.

Also, the story finally will involve PVP in some form now...isn't that nice?
 
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