Baldur's Gate II Questions

[Zaleukos]

If 8 is the dwarf Kagain you do his quest by:

Spoiler

Go from Beregost to the area north of it, and he should tell you that there is little point in a continued search (for whatever his quest is about) and that he might as well just follow your party.

 

[Dasale]

Thanks but in fact I didn't ask the question, it was just for the quote. I hope I'll find by myself (again!) before he left.

I started both in //, BG1 and SoA, it's clear that even if there isn't much difference overall, but there's enough to make BG1 feel quite older than SoA. A point is I don't want bother enter in complicate installation so I play original versions.

But BG1 beginning is charming, at least after Candlekeep, when I dislike so much SoA beginning and knowing roughly the whole story doesn't help at all enjoy it more. For me it's a manipulation that is ridiculous and incredible. But also, I already notice in SoA more density, quite more companions chats even if many don't work for me, plenty more (not fake) classes even if classes are almost as much rigid. I have switch back to BG1 because of this beginning, I hope be able finished this SoA first part but not sure at all, in fact I wish more come back to DAO.

Anyway that both replay in // show me how BG1 and BG2 are too close and it's hard nowadays to play BG1 after BG2, just because of improvement in classes, technology and density. Not to mention you start with characters level 7 when you have to go through the rude way in BG1 starting with level 1 and have to struggle just to do one level up. Overall D&D isn't very well designed for low level characters.

I like this rude way in BG1 but well I won't deny it's also a weakness and for younger players it's a bit too much. In this replay I started with a strong Halfling Cleric character knowing how more rude can be some other characters like mage.

 

[Ergonpandilus]

I on the other hand cannot start BG2 without first playing BG1, since it feels like starting of the middle.

It only takes 15-20 mins to install BGtutu if you already have both games installed on your system. And other 15 mins if you want to install some mods. That should fix the "issue" with classes and ruleset.

 

[Zaleukos]

Anyway that both replay in // show me how BG1 and BG2 are too close and it's hard nowadays to play BG1 after BG2, just because of improvement in classes, technology and density. Not to mention you start with characters level 7 when you have to go through the rude way in BG1 starting with level 1 and have to struggle just to do one level up. Overall D&D isn't very well designed for low level characters.

I found that the biggest interface improvements were the better journal (BG2 allows you to filter out inactive quests, while BG1 only has one long chunk of text), alt-highlighting (I hate the doors in BG1 that are obscured by buildings, trying to find the entrance to a house can be trial and error), and the added auto-pause options (mainly pause when trap is spotted). I agree about the low, or more specifically first, level issues, but I find that BG1 is much more enjoyable if I use an editor to give me enough XP to start at level 2 instead, 2000 extra XP make no difference in the long run but makes the game start a LOT smoother. Being able to survive two rather than one hit by Xvarts is a major improvement.

Tutu should fix the interface issues.

 

[Dasale]

About tutu, well I suppose that not have installed ToB will cause me problem and I'm not motivated enough to enter into such complications. My comment was more for younger players than me, I get used rather fast to BG1 small screen and such stuff.

Zaleukos, Alt to highlight doors in BG2? That remind me something but it seems not work. I looked in the configuration application and didn't saw the action. I agree that BG1 abuse of little secrets through selectable stuff hidden behind something but for houses doors, once I discovered the trick, it never trouble me. And it's hard to not quote it in Beregost. I agree it's a doubtful design but it gives space density to a town like Beregost, something missing in BG2 towns where the issue was much more avoided.

In fact I got a lot more troubles with doors in BG2 because of door hiding an enemy or an item to take on ground. I also believed there was a shortcut to select something behind something else also selectable but didn't saw that option too.

With points you mention about comfort details brought in BG2 I would add from my short play or from what I know:

• The option to rest until all spells are memorized and all character healed through healing spells.
• The pause in inventory, even if the rule is a lot too complicated.
• The bigger stacks of arrows.
• Option to get max HP at level up.
• No CONS points lost at resurrection.
• Magic resistance that resists to positive spells too (making Viconia almost useless in BG1)
• Even if classes are almost as rigid in BG2, to have much more special choices at creation is a real plus, and in fact it makes a little useless the ability to use a character coming from BG1.

I dislike a lot the BG2 beginning but in this part (don't remember in later parts) there's much more dialogs and voice dialogs, clearly something to appeal more younger players because they are used to such stuff in many modern CRPG. For me, in this part of the game, I could not be objective, but it brings almost as much negative than positive. The constant whining of Imoen is so boring and many comments are so flat if not stupids that they contribute more to build a bad mood in this part of the game. For me those dialogs are often supposed to reinforce a sort of horror mood but it's so badly written that the effect is the reverse.

Such dialogs mechanics coming from companions is the way to go but with a much better writing quality. In DAO such companions comments are so rare it's a shame, companions chats between them are fun but that's far to be an as great mechanism.

About voice acting, what a burden CRPG put on their shoulders, but well it's so pleasant, AAA CRPG won't step back on this.

 

[Zaleukos]

I agree about the density, BG1 felt much closer to real world medieval cities in that sense. But I never figured out any trick besides trial and error... So I am of the opposite opinion compared to you, the "back side" doors bother me a lot, but the hidden locations with extra loot are fine

Googling the issue it seems like it is Tab that is used for highlighting and that this functionality was added with ToB.

The bigger arrow stacks are compensated by nonmagical arrows being near useless in BG2 when tonnes of monsters have resistance to normal weapons I use an ease of use mod to change stack sizes anyway (might be a bad idea for BG1 with the ridiculously overpowered archery). Inventory limits by weight dont bother me, but the retarded notion that 20 rings take up as much space as 20 plate armours do.... I use a mod to get max HP on levelup as well, it makes such a big difference at low levels.

 

[Dasale]

Mmm ToB? Thanks for the information, I'll have to find this dam dvd. I bet I stored it in one of the thousand music CD or half thousand game box I have… but definitely not in its original box. My understanding of comprehensive storing is strange sometimes. The worse is that in theory I have two versions of ToB but well I suppose the original one won't install well upon the newer SoA and can't find more the original ToA but only the Mac version where ToB was never released, at least in my native language!

 

[Dasale]

I knew I should not have try installed Tutu, I only lost multiple hours for zero result.

After some investigation I'm not sure but I think the problem is coming from, not using an English version so no EasyTutu but a real crap installer instead. Second problem is with some languages, the older standard Tutu fails miserably most probably because ToB isn't installed despite Tutu is supposed to not require it.

Now a little disgusted and tired I only wish come back to DAO! Seriously I don't advise at all Tutu for those not using the English version of BG series.

 

[Zaleukos]

Sorry to hear that.

The Tutu version I used required either ToB or the manual installation of two ToB files to work. I've only played the UK version of BG as that's what we usually get in Scandinavia, and while installing Tutu (never used easytutu) took a good hour and a half I didnt have any installation problems, but I did have slowdown issues on some maps.

 

[JDR13]

I've never tried Tutu, I'm fine with the BG interface as it is, imo it's a classic that doesn't need to be messed with.

As far as hidden doors and stashes, I always enjoyed searching for them, and I never used the highlight option in ToB.

 

[bkrueger]

Now a little disgusted and tired I only wish come back to DAO! Seriously I don't advise at all Tutu for those not using the English version of BG series.

The "Big World Setup" is useful for non-English versions as an alternative to Tutu. At least for the German version it is very convenient.

 

[Dasale]

Sorry to hear that.

The Tutu version I used required either ToB or the manual installation of two ToB files to work. I've only played the UK version of BG as that's what we usually get in Scandinavia, and while installing Tutu (never used easytutu) took a good hour and a half I didnt have any installation problems, but I did have slowdown issues on some maps.

Installing bore me a lot, in part it's because I'm not young enough for that stuff, in part it's me, there's reason if I often had a Mac, even if nowadays, there isn't much difference anymore.

Not all problems came from Tutu but also from unclear and badly done Bioware patches, for example I could install BG1 patch on BG1+ToSC and get some minor anomaly, when it's the ToSC patch only that I had to use. So what took time was a lot from installing multiple time BG1+ToSC+SoA and patches. The other part of time lost was reading and searching around Tutu problems or features.

I perhaps finally succeed install it by launching the Tutu install multiple time, first time it crashed because of an out of bound and stop, second time it got a same error but continue up to end. And from this base I could reinstall it again and install Tutu fix with no errors. I also installed the BG1UB mod because it has a version in my language and the BG1 interface mod because it looks much better and get back some BG1 mood in it.

I also almost throw all once more when I noticed the voice introduction was in full English and that the diary was empty… thanks I see from a forum that it was normal in Candlekeep and noticed in general voices and texts was fine in my language and if one was in English anyway the original version was far to be perfect with some wrong or empty descriptions or even few in English.

So it seems work, one trouble is I could not use current BG1 saves but at least I could import the character.

The larger screen is a clear plus, the larger log windows with in it a copy of diary inputs are also a clear plus, some BG2 options like pause are cool to have but:

• I use the slower walk from fixes but it's still a lot faster. After some time I got roughly used to it and overall it's ok despite the ugly animation it involves, the exploration mood a bit broken, and NPC and everything walking too fast for selecting NPC to talk or during fight letting less time but it could be too a bit a rebalance to compensate BG1 long range balance broken.
• But my Halfeling character is a lot faster than companions and Imoen seems very slow and that isn't something I get used too but that I have to adapt to. This could come from Dex 19 of my character.
• Also it's not that cool to get classes of BG2 in BG1 because with more (too many) weapons categories, that make them even a little weaker for low levels. I also lost the ability to train slings with Cleric. In exchange I could get some spells from the class pack specialization and the Sling training seems get for free.
• The sorted quest log has positive and negative, it removes charm from knowing what's just a rumor in diary to what is an information linked to what's like a quest. I already get surprised one was in quest part, I remember have investigate around it sometimes and don't remember I ever found something very concrete.

Well I spend too much time to install this and it's not all positive points but it worth a try, too bad I could not use saves from BG1. I'll try it a bit more anyway. So thanks for the suggestion. Even if I'm not sure that I won't come back to original game, I feel like JDR13, original game wasn't much a problem for me, but texts fixes and larger log keep me trying it.

 

[Dasale]

I also notice that Tutu increase significantly the difficulty, I made a play beginning very close to the one I did in BG1 and I noticed fights happened quite badly, I felt almost as cheating in Tutu with the evil woman wizard in Beregost, I had to restart 3 time before to have luck to win it when I win it at first time with BG1.

Or the fight in Beregost against spiders was easy with BG1 and get 2 characters poisoned and one close to death with Tutu.

The quote is that my cleric is a super hero and was well equip quite soon. Among other unpleasant details I noticed some voices level not at right level, some having a quite higher level than some other.

The more I try Tutu the more I think it's a very bad way to discover BG1, apart bigger screen it tends to generate a less good gameplay from plenty point of view.

 

[azraelck]

I personally used EasyTutu to install Tutu. I'm far too lazy to do it the manual way. Worked fine, took a couple mins and was done.

The increased difficulty was surprising to me, actually. Having Imoen and Ash mobbed by a dozen Gibberlings or Xvarts on the road just outside Candlekeep, or after picking up Xzar and Monty getting jumped by a dire wolf, resulting in some desperate fights. Generally though, it just put it up to a level where it really should have been IMO, though starting with a level 1 Sorcerer was a bit difficult to say the least.

 

[JDR13]

The increased difficulty was surprising to me, actually.

I didn't know Tutu changed anything other than the interface. That's another reason for me not to use it, I don't like mods that change the gameplay in any way, unless it's something that really needs to be changed.

 

[azraelck]

Well, it's not a huge change. Some encounters either have a few more critters, or might be a stronger variety of critter. Early on, it's a bit more difficult to run, but once you get a level or two it's not bad.

Another thing is that monsters follow you from buildings and such, IIRC in BG1 they didn't. So you can't just duck into a building and get away. Not particularly noticeable until later in the game.

 

[JDR13]

Another thing is that monsters follow you from buildings and such, IIRC in BG1 they didn't. So you can't just duck into a building and get away. Not particularly noticeable until later in the game.

I still remember how surprised I was to see that the first time I played BG2.

Do you recall if that was implemented in any of the IWD games? It's been too long since I've played those...

 

[azraelck]

While I just got new copies of both IWD games (lost the originals, bet I find them again now), I haven't played them more than enough to ensure my no-CD cracks were working. I did clear out the docks in IWD2, and did not notice anyone following me in to rest or anything. Since that's kinda a starter area of sorts, it may have been tweaked to prevent it. IWD1, I haven't gone anywhere that I could test such a thing.

 

[Zaleukos]

I still remember how surprised I was to see that the first time I played BG2.

Do you recall if that was implemented in any of the IWD games? It's been too long since I've played those…

The only one enemy I've run away from is Phaen the wizard in IWD2 (you face him at level 1 or 2 in the starting town, and I sometimes leave his house so that he will use up his spells), and he didnt follow the party. But then not every enemy in BG2 did either, sometimes you could break up groups of enemies by exiting a house. I suspect either AI fog of war or simply the distance to the "door" affected the outcome.

 

[KazikluBey]

I believe they only followed you out if they were "attack mode", i.e. trying to melêe or shoot you. Casting a spell didn't count as an "attack" in that sense, which is why spell-casters often didn't follow you around even if you simply went out of sight while they were casting.