Risen 2 - Using Steamworks

[Eisberg]

witcher 2 activation blew
dragon age 2 activation took nearly a week through impulse

never had a starting problem with a steam game

fallout 3 on GFWL was much less stable than New Vegas on steam for me.

Steam is hardly errorless though as after purchasing Drakensang River of Time and its addon and installing and deleting them twice I still haven't gotten them to run.
Maybe they secretly know I never finished the first game…

haha, you need to finish the first one . I had the same problem, but I didn't buy it from Steam, I had the Direct2drive version. It runs on my wifes computer, but for some reason it won't work on my main computer. I haven't been bothered to find out why, so I just play it on my wifes computer.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

Yes, you can't resell - and Gamestop also can't buy used games and sell them with 200% margin instead of sealed games.

As a customer the decision path is simple:
Deduct the resale value from the price you would have been willing to buy at. For example if you would have bought for 40€ and the resale value is 20 EUR, wait until the game becomes available for 20€. Then resale value no longer matters because you still have the other 20€ available for other purchases.

Do gamestop even buy used PC games?

 

[zakhal]

I have always managed to get everything to run without problems so I have never had issues with things like DRM. But I understand if some people are not as skilled so they have other thoughts about it and need things like working customer service. People are different.

 

[guenthar]

Eisberg: Maybe your 8 friends do that with DRM free games but I know many people who won't buy games with DRM or limit what they buy because of DRM. Which is a bigger loss in sales 8 people sharing one game or 20 people not buying the game at all. Anyone can come up with these statements so this is fundamentally useless as any kind of evidence either way.

I'm wondering how companies come up with the information you talk about. It obviously can't be from a study since there have been none from the gaming industry. The only other ways (since there isn't any real evidence) is that they used different forms of analysis to determine the financial gain for using DRM. There are many companies that rely on statistical analysis and trend analysis to make company decisions. The problem with this is that many companies are too reliant upon these but they are essentially fictional, and are the equivalent of ancient Greek people going to see an Oracle to tell their future. Besides that what other information could they have. They have information on sales for all DRMed games which some are successful and some are not and information on the hand full of non-DRMed games which some are successful and some are not. I don't see anything a developer or publisher could have that would withstand the burden of proof on whether DRM is useful for sales but maybe if they had a time machine that they could use to see what the sales are both ways they could.

PS. The sales for The Witcher 2 were 400,000 in the first week so I guess not everyone did what your friends did.

PPS. I was a little wrong about that article and it was actually about movie piracy and not general piracy like I thought it was. If you want to check out the article anyways it is here http://torrentfreak.com/suppressed-report-found-busted-pirate-site-users-were-good-consumers-110719/

PPPS. There was also a report that had similar results to the above made by the U.S. government.

 

[Zygo]

One thing I've never understood is the attitude that just because you like something it's fine to force others to use it. I like chocolate icecream, drive a Toyota and use Firefox but I'd never dream of telling people they had to use them. Yet for some reason Steam users often seem to be... affronted, in an almost religious sense, when people don't want to be forced to use Steam. Which is, often, and amusingly, coupled with outrage when they themselves are 'forced' to use something they don't like.

Steam got where it is by bundling, from Half Life 2 (x million copies sold = x million baseline users of Steam) on. I'd be surprised if a single person on this forum actually downloaded Steam 'voluntarily' rather than got it installed via bundling. From Valve's view the entire point of Steamworks is to drive installs, they aren't doing the loss leading for it out of the goodness of their heart but because they know they'll make money from it in the longer term from either DLC or defaultism.

Publishers would just make their Nextbox games available on Steam

Closed system, MS has no need to allow Valve access. Allow publishers their own space on Live Marketplace and make money the same way they do for physical copies- ie licencing fees- if they really want to stick the knife in.

But here is a problem with your idea, Consoles are a closed system with no hardware variance, but there are for PCs, the publishers would still need to make 2 different versions, one for the Nextbox and one that has been tested and debugged for many different systems.

In that scenario MS would have a hardware specification for the nextbox which would be, essentially, a closed box PC running AMD/nVid video on AMD/ Intel chips, develop for the nextbox and you would be developing for PC simultaneously. Since most publishers don't fundamentally 'like' PC and far prefer making or saving money to taking principled stands they'd make a unified SKU and rely on AMD/ nVid (or 'NextBox compatible' labelling) to provide compatibility.

 

[MysterD]

How is that any different then say using Securom, Tages, ect? Can't play games that utilize those DRMS without having them run. Steam is by far less intrusive then the rest of the DRM schemes out there. And in light of The Witcher 2, it looks like Securom actually decreases performance of a computer when it is running. Steam uses 22mb ram, and there has been no reports of it causing performance issues on games.

I bought Witcher 2 from GOG b/c it had NO DRM.

Risen 1 PC never requires online activation from Retail. It required disc in drive, if you bought it from retail. So, if your Net connection is down, as long as you have the working game disc, of course - you're good to go.

Risen 2 PC requires Steam, so of course you'll need to activate it online. Plus, you'll need to run Steam to run the game - period.

Steam is also visibly running, when you run a Steam-required game - especially if you boot it from off the Steam program/client. Of course, Steam does have an offline mode - but I think many people using Steam are going to be online. Also, if we're talking about reselling PC games to people [which I'm not into and careless about] - Steam games cannot be resold.

Interestingly enough, though - many 3rd party games on Steam work w/out running Steam, as long as you make a shortcut of the EXE from the game-folder. I wonder if Risen is one of these; I never tried. Anyone?

Personally - Securom, Steam, Origin, whatever - just sell me the game. I ain't gonna be alive forever, so all games are still a rental, in that sense. The only DRM I really never cared too much for was StarForce.

 

[MysterD]

haha, you need to finish the first one . I had the same problem, but I didn't buy it from Steam, I had the Direct2drive version. It runs on my wifes computer, but for some reason it won't work on my main computer. I haven't been bothered to find out why, so I just play it on my wifes computer.

Drakensang games are known for issues. I can't speak for TROT, but the old Drakensang: TDE had the same problem as Dead Space 1 - make sure you turn off (56K) Modem Sound in your device manager - it thinks its an extra sound channel and doesn't know what to do w/ it.

If that's not the problem you are having - then your guess is as good as mine, hehe.

 

[Couchpotato]

Not sure why people hate steam, it's not very intrusive or system intensive at all. If it's a question of trust, well, that ship has already sailed unfortunately.

I dont like to rent my games and give someone power to take them away at anytime they want. There that matter of trust inst settled.

 

[Eisberg]

Interestingly enough, though - many 3rd party games on Steam work w/out running Steam, as long as you make a shortcut of the EXE from the game-folder. I wonder if Risen is one of these; I never tried. Anyone?

Yes, Risen will work without Steam running. I have Risen from Steam installed right now, and don't have Steam running right now, and yeah as long as I use the executable from the games directory the game loads up just fine.

 

[Eisberg]

I dont like to rent my games and give someone power to take them away at anytime they want. There that matter of trust inst settled.

Yeah, I'm not paranoid enough to think that Valve will just one day not exist and Steam is gone, or they'll take my games away for a reason that wasn't my fault. Yes, it is paranoia to think they would do that, or that the company will go out of business and all your games are gone with it. I go outside everyday trusting everyone around me to not hit me with their car, I go into strangers homes trusting they won't kill me or beat me down to a pulp, I also trust them to put away their guard dogs and that they are secure and won't come out and tear my throat out if they were not secure enough despite the fact that I have been bitten by a dog because a customer didn't secure their dog enough. My mom trusts that the $350,000 she has in the bank won't one day disappear and she'll have to rely on the $250,000 insurance money from the NCUA.

 

[Eisberg]

One thing I've never understood is the attitude that just because you like something it's fine to force others to use it. I like chocolate icecream, drive a Toyota and use Firefox but I'd never dream of telling people they had to use them. Yet for some reason Steam users often seem to be… affronted, in an almost religious sense, when people don't want to be forced to use Steam. Which is, often, and amusingly, coupled with outrage when they themselves are 'forced' to use something they don't like.

Steam got where it is by bundling, from Half Life 2 (x million copies sold = x million baseline users of Steam) on. I'd be surprised if a single person on this forum actually downloaded Steam 'voluntarily' rather than got it installed via bundling. From Valve's view the entire point of Steamworks is to drive installs, they aren't doing the loss leading for it out of the goodness of their heart but because they know they'll make money from it in the longer term from either DLC or defaultism.


Closed system, MS has no need to allow Valve access. Allow publishers their own space on Live Marketplace and make money the same way they do for physical copies- ie licencing fees- if they really want to stick the knife in.

In that scenario MS would have a hardware specification for the nextbox which would be, essentially, a closed box PC running AMD/nVid video on AMD/ Intel chips, develop for the nextbox and you would be developing for PC simultaneously. Since most publishers don't fundamentally 'like' PC and far prefer making or saving money to taking principled stands they'd make a unified SKU and rely on AMD/ nVid (or 'NextBox compatible' labelling) to provide compatibility.

Wait, let me understand this. You are saying that MS would make Win 8 a closed system, so only software they choose to allow to work will work on it? Yeah, that will go over well in courts. Cause that is what you are saying when you state that MS could close Steam from being on Win 8. If Win 8 had that ability to play Nextbox games, then publishers/developers would also sell their games on Steam, just like they do now with PC games that also have a console version.

 

[DArtagnan]

Yeah, I'm not paranoid enough to think that Valve will just one day not exist and Steam is gone, or they'll take my games away for a reason that wasn't my fault. Yes, it is paranoia to think they would do that, or that the company will go out of business and all your games are gone with it. I go outside everyday trusting everyone around me to not hit me with their car, I go into strangers homes trusting they won't kill me or beat me down to a pulp, I also trust them to put away their guard dogs and that they are secure and won't come out and tear my throat out if they were not secure enough despite the fact that I have been bitten by a dog because a customer didn't secure their dog enough. My mom trusts that the $350,000 she has in the bank won't one day disappear and she'll have to rely on the $250,000 insurance money from the NCUA.

I don't think it's paranoid.

It's not at all unprecedented that people have been banned for one reason or another, and whether or not the reasons were good - it's something to consider. It's one thing to ban people from having access to a service, it's quite another to ban them from playing games they've paid for.

I don't think it's fair to have all access to all games removed for, say, using a pirated version of Steam. Some people do that to get rid of the hassle of going "offline" and "online" and just avoiding the crappy client. I could see myself doing that, easy.

Wasn't it just recently someone got banned from a forum and all access to games was taken away? Not Valve-related - but it's relevant.

These things might not be particularly plausible TODAY - but things change, as people adapt to the new way of doing things.

I think people shrugging things like that off are being naive.

 

[DArtagnan]

How is that any different then say using Securom, Tages, ect? Can't play games that utilize those DRMS without having them run. Steam is by far less intrusive then the rest of the DRM schemes out there. And in light of The Witcher 2, it looks like Securom actually decreases performance of a computer when it is running. Steam uses 22mb ram, and there has been no reports of it causing performance issues on games.

Far less intrusive?

I've yet to see ANY copy protection more intrusive than Steam. Possibly the UBI soft thing for Silent Hunter 5 - which for my version runs ON TOP of Steam.

Steam takes a long time to load compared to its function, it regularly goes "black" - as in the pop-ups have no pictures and you sometimes have to close it. It launches games with "Installing XYZ for the first time" over and over again. You can't go "Offline" unless you're "Online" first.

I've tried Steam on at least 4 different setups - and they all suffer from those issues.

It's a pain-in-the-ass copy protection if you don't "admire" its services.

 

[DArtagnan]

It won't be a digital distribution only. The game will be available in physical form, and also at other various digital download services.

Your source?

 

[DArtagnan]

Yeah, I would like to hear people justification for calling Steam a monopoly? Less then half of the game on Steam are Steamworks, and even then a large percentage of those games are only Steamworks DRM for Steam bought games, but use different DRM for Physical and other digital distrubuters bought games. I wouldn't doubt there are more securom game out there then there are Steamworks. And as far as sales, what are they supposed to do, not take any more customers or sell any more games till the other digital distributors catch up? Is it really their fault that they have the better overall value then the other digital distributors? Steam hasn't done anything that is anti competitive to gain the ground they have now, they have what they have because they earned it and started at the right time.

We're not calling it a monopoly. That would be stupid, because it isn't one.

It's BECOMING a monopoly, as far as I can see.

They don't have better overall value than other DD. That would be an objective statement, which would - at least - require everyone to agree.

I think GOG, Gamersgate, D2D ALL offer better value - because they're not intrusive pieces of shit - and they offer much better EU prices.

Steamworks is more then a DRM, it has all kinds of features that actually add value for the customer, and it even adds value for the publisher or developer. "Steamworks provides means of games to integrate with the Steam client, including networking and player authentication tools for both server and peer-to-peer multiplayer games, matchmaking services, support for Steam community friends and groups, Steam statistics and achievements, integrated voice communications, and Steam Cloud support; the API also provides for anti-cheating devices and digital copy management." (Wiki) And if a developer/publisher doesn't want to sell the game on Steam, but still wants to use Steamworks it is still free for them to use, with no charges from Valve at all, they just don't get any kind of presence on the Steam Store, but they still get all the benefits of Steamworks.

There IS no value unless you see and feel the value. I don't. I don't CARE about those services - and I'd rather be using free versions downloaded off the net that suit me. Just like I always did.

If YOU see the value that makes it all worthwhile - then great, but don't assume we all do.

DRM is a reality, and I highly doubt it is going anywhere. So when it comes to DRM, I would rather support a DRM that actually adds value to the customer and to the developer/publisher.

I'd rather have pretty much anything but Steam. Also, it's not a reality unless we accept it as a reality.

Some people do that without putting up a fight, and that's on them.

 

[DArtagnan]

Well for Non Steamworks games you can move the games folder where ever you want. There is even software out there to make it even easier. You can control what you want updated and what you do not want, just disable the automatic update feature. Since Steam has been released, I had no problems running the game when I want to, with or with out an internet connection. I currently have a laptop that only gets connected to the internet maybe once every 4 months, and I play all my games in offline mode.

Can you have multiple folders for multiple harddisks or partitions? I haven't found a way to do that - and I don't have just one drive for games.

 

[Couchpotato]

Yeah, I'm not paranoid enough to think that Valve will just one day not exist and Steam is gone, or they'll take my games away for a reason that wasn't my fault. Yes, it is paranoia to think they would do that, or that the company will go out of business and all your games are gone with it. I go outside everyday trusting everyone around me to not hit me with their car, I go into strangers homes trusting they won't kill me or beat me down to a pulp, I also trust them to put away their guard dogs and that they are secure and won't come out and tear my throat out if they were not secure enough despite the fact that I have been bitten by a dog because a customer didn't secure their dog enough. My mom trusts that the $350,000 she has in the bank won't one day disappear and she'll have to rely on the $250,000 insurance money from the NCUA.

Read your agreement then because they have the right to take away your games at any moment for any small rule break. Its not paranoia its fact. I had a friend gift a game overseas and according to them violated a rule and he lost access to his games.
Also have fun dealing with valve's customer service.

Be my guess and rent your games if you want since publishers love that idea.

Wait, let me understand this. You are saying that MS would make Win 8 a closed system, so only software they choose to allow to work will work on it? Yeah, that will go over well in courts. Cause that is what you are saying when you state that MS could close Steam from being on Win 8. If Win 8 had that ability to play Nextbox games, then publishers/developers would also sell their games on Steam, just like they do now with PC games that also have a console version.

As for windows 8 Microsoft already announced you will be able to play xbox games on it with a new service for the pc. Something like xbox live on the consoles. Of course you will have to pay for the service and games.

 

[lostforever]

Does PC games have any resale values these days?
Other than selling it yourself on ebay I can't go and sell (or exchange) PC games in stores like I can do with consoles games.

I am in UK btw

 

[Eisberg]

Far less intrusive?

I've yet to see ANY copy protection more intrusive than Steam. Possibly the UBI soft thing for Silent Hunter 5 - which for my version runs ON TOP of Steam.

Steam takes a long time to load compared to its function, it regularly goes "black" - as in the pop-ups have no pictures and you sometimes have to close it. It launches games with "Installing XYZ for the first time" over and over again. You can't go "Offline" unless you're "Online" first.

I've tried Steam on at least 4 different setups - and they all suffer from those issues.

It's a pain-in-the-ass copy protection if you don't "admire" its services.

I have several PC games that I now have to make a phone call to activate the game because I ran out of activations and no way to revoke activations. Yes, that is far more intrusive then Steamworks where there is no activation limit. It has also been proven that Securom causes performance issues, which as far as I can tell is the most used form of DRM. Tages has been proven to slowdown loading of a save game, which is another common DRM.

As for your issues you had. You can get rid of that popup, it is optional. Steam takes a few seconds to log on for online mode. You are doing something wrong with the offline mode. I have a laptop that maybe gets on the internet 1 time every 3 or 4 months, so I play all my Steam games in offline mode. Plus there are many games that don't even need Steam to be running to play them, even though they were bought from Steam.

 

[Eisberg]

Can you have multiple folders for multiple harddisks or partitions? I haven't found a way to do that - and I don't have just one drive for games.

http://www.ghacks.net/2010/09/03/steam-mover-automated-tool-to-move-games-and-apps-to-other-drives/