Welfare reform in Michigan

[dteowner]

http://detnews.com/article/20110825...an-Legislature-approves-4-year-cap-on-welfare

The state Legislature on Wednesday passed a 48-month lifetime limit on welfare benefits expected to cast more than 11,000 families off the welfare rolls on Oct. 1 — including more than 29,700 children, according to state officials.

Rep. Kenneth Horn, R-Frankenmuth, noted that food stamps, Medicaid and child care payments will continue for those kicked off cash assistance.

The department will offer two months of emergency rent assistance to clients who are actively seeking jobs and also will provide two more months of help through the state's Jobs, Education and Training program.

"These are able-bodied adults," Thompson said. "They have had between four and 15 years to reach self-sufficiency."

 

[Ubereil]

"These are able-bodied adults," Thompson said. "They have had between four and 15 years to reach self-sufficiency."

Why haven't they? And what have been done to change that?

And what effect will this really have on these pepole? We're talking pepole who's been unemployed for five+ years, this isn't exactly the most employable pepole in the states. How easy a time will they have getting a job in the middle of a recession, even if they manage to pull their shit together? And how many of them really have it in them to pull their shit together on their own?

Übereil

 

[Thrasher]

Idiots. Horrible timing.

 

[GothicGothicness]

29,700 children, according to state officials.

I am sure those children have done everything they could to get a job......

 

[dteowner]

Idiots. Horrible timing.

Probably not the best timing given conditions in Michigan, but reform like this would never go thru in good times no matter how much sense it might make.

 

[dteowner]

I am sure those children have done everything they could to get a job……

Someone clearly didn't read the entire article.

 

[blatantninja]

I'm no fan of the welfare state, but where exactly does Michigan expect these people to get jobs? The state is dying an excruciating death. Maybe they are trying to get them to leave the state.

 

[Thrasher]

Dontcha know that righties want to throw out child labor laws too?

http://www.politicususa.com/en/republican-child-labor

Isn't it funny that you never hear about this in the so-called "liberal-biased" media? Corporations would love to be able to send kids to work. They'd only have to pay them half wages.

 

[dteowner]

I believe the theory is that if you've been getting checks from the government (let's not forget that these checks are over and above many other forms of welfare that are going to the exact same recipients) for 4 years or more, you're probably not trying that hard to find a job. Like Thrasher said though, the timing on this is lousy.

Ultimately, it seems to me a rather cold-hearted but necessary removal of leeches that abuse the welfare system.

 

[Korplem]

I've always thought that welfare recipients should do some manual labor for the state - unless physically unable, of course. At least picking up trash or whatever. Lousy jobs for welfare might motivate them to find a real job and if not, at least the state would look better.

 

[blatantninja]

I've always thought that welfare recipients should do some manual labor for the state - unless physically unable, of course. At least picking up trash or whatever. Lousy jobs for welfare might motivate them to find a real job and if not, at least the state would look better.

Agreed. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Put them to work.

 

[Thrasher]

Good idea! There's lots of infrastructure that needs help. Rather than removing welfare dollars, redirect the money to public works projects. That would be better all around.

 

[blatantninja]

Good idea! There's lots of infrastructure that needs help. Rather than removing welfare dollars, redirect the money to public works projects. That would be better all around.

This makes far too much sense to actually happen.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

We've hd a court decision here that a family "won" at court for FORMAL reasons !
Not in the case itself !

What happened ?

Here, Hartz IV rules are so that the so-called "job centers" (the successors of the state social welfare centers) is giving people the absolute minimum of money - through this they want to *force* people to take a job, no matter how bad this job is.

And in this special case a grandmother had been giving each of I think it was two or three children around 100 Euros for toys (I think as a birthday present), and 130 for all of them as a Christmas present, if I recall this correctly.

And the job center wanted the money back. Or rather, they cut the money for the whole family for exactly the sum the grandmother gave the children.

This court decision has caused quite a stir here, because a) they got right ONLY of FORMAL reasons, and second the law remains in principle still intact, and this law implicitely says that children must not be given more money than 50 Euros (that's the limit which was surpassed by the grandmother).

The Menschenbild, the human image that stands behind these laws is horrible in my eyes : "Keep the people poor, force them to take a job, no matter how bad it is and even it is a job provided by a crimonal".

A few years ago, families had to spend absolutel EVERYTHING before they could get into the state's walfare - and meant even selling their own houses !

Who profits from that ? Of course those who already have the money to buy houses - for renting, or further selling by themselves ... "Those who already have, those will be given ..."

There was also the case of a woman who was forced to takle a job or get her state welfare money COMPLETELY cut - the jop was described as a "cleaning maid", but the plce was a brothel ... And everyone knew she would be forced to work there as a prostitute - but the job center still insisted on her taking this job - naively ...

 

[MasterKromm]

This makes far too much sense to actually happen.

My dad and I have joked about getting welfare recipients to work on infrastructure or other necessary manual labor for ages now... But as you succinctly put it, that makes far to much sense.

Ironically this idea would probably have wide support across party lines... But it has yet to be considered(AFAIK).

 

[Thrasher]

Course not, it doesn't help win elections...

 

[GothicGothicness]

This has been suggested in a lot of countries. But there is quite some problems involved actually. What kind of work should they do? who will take care of their children when they are working ( if they can't afford daycare) if they are alone, how do you make sure they do the work? what if they do a bad job… will they be fired? get no money? Also why not use them to save money instead of hiring people? the problems goes on. + they cannot do any education or other things if they are out picking trash.

Basically what you do is just create a lot of extremly low salary jobs that none would want, and that are not considered important enough to spend the state budget on. And you'd call the salary, wellware instead of salary.

 

[darkling]

Why not just round them up and kill them all at once? Why bother with reform?

Fucking right wing trashheaps.

 

[Ubereil]

I believe the theory is that if you've been getting checks from the government for 4 years or more, you're probably not trying that hard to find a job.

Why aren't they trying harder, though? Because they have too much money? Or does the problem lie elsewhere? Considering how depressing not having a job is, going that far without getting one is probably a sign of either incompetence or mental problems (be they self esteem related or something else) rather than lazyness.

Übereil, who also thinks lazyness is a nonsense term that never accurately describes anything

 

[Thrasher]

Well there is the argument that many longterm welfare recipients either don't want to work or are incapable of working because of handicaps. So shifting those dollars into public works improvement may not have the desired effect of bringing all those people along. But it is worth the try to get something more productive out of those dollars. Some welfare/social security recipients will necessarily remain lifers, though.