Deus Ex: Human Revolution Initial Impressions

[azarhal]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me what c&c have to do with RPGs, because as far as I experienced really few RPGs implement them. In fact, it seems to be a recent trend and purely cosmetic.

Also, killing everybody in the DBR area give a really funny Picus Newspaper entry. Well, I found it funny.

 

[Thrasher]

I finished Montreal and am back in Detroit.

@JDR - I also am finding the pocket secretaries with codes laying everywhere real silly. Why would so many people leave their codes lying around?

@Ovenall - Yes, the game isn't much of an RPG if you can get all the augmentations in one play through. One has to define what an RPG is though, to convince people that DE:HR is not an RPG.

For me, character/party development, and choices on dialog and actions defines what it is to be an RPG. You can play an asshole or saint, a killer or sneaky knockout master. So it's an RPG for me. Branching story, and C&C is secondary to me, but nice when it's there, too.

 

[Ovenall]

Yikes.

These arguments point towards categorizing any game as pointless. If someone chooses to define Tetris as an RPG it makes it one? You can call this whatever you want. It's an action game where you have some choice in the types of powers you upgrade. That makes it an RPG?

I can recall dozens of threads about the dumbing down of Dragon Age and Mass Effect where people were absolutely livid that Bioware had made something that was no longer an RPG. And yet this game still has people swearing up and down that it's an RPG.

It's a relatively competent action game. Is there some reason why you can't just call it what it is? It's OK that you like a game that's an action game or a non-RPG. Why are people here getting defensive and insisting this is something it's not.

I've also said over and over that I like the game. But because I say it's not an RPG (it's not), now some are claiming that I don't like the game.

There's a weird strain of orthodoxy in the CRPG world that cause these kinds of disconnects. I like various types of games, including this one. At the same time, I can objectively distance myself from the enjoyment of the game and call it what it is… This is a stealth/shooter game with a paper thin veneer of RPG attached. If you like it, fine, but like it for what it is, not for what you imagine it to be.

 

[fadedc]

These arguments point towards categorizing any game as pointless.

Ding Ding Ding Ding

I can recall dozens of threads about the dumbing down of Dragon Age and Mass Effect where people were absolutely livid that Bioware had made something that was no longer an RPG.

Yep and I'm sure those people don't think DEHR is a RPG either. The vast majority of games that are talked about as a RPG here have people who will swear up and down that it doesn't fit their definition of one. Hence the pointlessness of categorizing.

I've also said over and over that I like the game.

And you've also talked about many different things you hate about the game but you haven't mentioned anything you actually like. But perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you hate the RPG elements of the game.

 

[Ovenall]

I've said it's a competent stealth/action shooter. What else should I say? I spent money on it, so I'm playing it. It's OK.

Frankly, I find a lot of it hokey because of the way it's produced. It has nearly zero sense of humor, and with the so-so voice acting and the ludicrous looking main character it's hard to like very much. It thinks it's a 100 million dollar Ridley Scott film, but comes across as a low budget canadian TV show. The actual action parts of the game play are pretty good.

So now that we cannot accurately describe any game as RPG or not-RPG, should this site start covering Facebook friend games?

 

[DArtagnan]

So now that we cannot accurately describe any game as RPG or not-RPG, should this site start covering Facebook friend games?

If they have RPG elements and people want to talk about them here, why not?

It's interesting that you constantly bring Bioware games into this. It's almost as if you're obsessed with them because they've been criticised so much lately.

Personally, I don't get the whole genre fanaticism. Yeah, so the site is called RPGWatch - but it's not exactly a law that every game covered must fit Ovenall's personal definition of the genre. Obviously, some people here consider it an RPG - and they seem to have good reasons that work for them.

Can't you simply accept that and move on?

 

[Thrasher]

Since Ovenall can't or won't seem to define "RPG" his arguments are empty. Sorry.

 

[Ovenall]

OK, let's assume it's an RPG even if it isn't. Glad to have RPG Watch covering this game. Hooray.

No I'm not obsessed with Bioware games. But Bioware on its worst day is better than this game, and gets way more criticism than this, and that makes no sense to me.

I don't expect anyone to take my opinion as gospel, but if ou're reading this just be aware that Deus ex ———— is not much of an rpg. If you think Bioshock is an RPG, then you might think this one is too. Otherwise it's an action game. Period.

And it's pretty hokey. The main character voice acting is downright laughable at times. I can't even understand him as his sentences trail off into mumbles. And the silly sunglasses and facial hair. And the Boss guy's voice is really bad as well. This game is going to look silly in retrospect with all the huge amount of praise it's getting. It's a B-movie at best.

 

[Thrasher]

I guess some people need hairstyle, gender, and romance choices in their RPGs…

 

[Ovenall]

Bioware got tons of crap from people on this site because you couldn't choose race/sex/etc in DA2. Deus EX ____ comes along and you literally have to play one single guy with a silly beard and it's showered with near universal praise.

Hairstyle gender and romance are not necessary, but certainly they are a part of what goes into making an RPG… Do you disagree with that, or are you simply trying to slam me with some insult again?

Deus Ex____. An RPG? Nope. An action game? Yes.

 

[fadedc]

Bioware got tons of crap from people on this site because you couldn't choose race/sex/etc in DA2.

Every game that every exists gets crap from people on this and other sites. The people who post here are individuals with different opnions. They are not a hivemind. Plenty of people loved the bioware games too.

Hairstyle gender and romance are not necessary, but certainly they are a part of what goes into making an RPG… Do you disagree with that, or are you simply trying to slam me with some insult again?

I'm pretty sure people disagree with you. Many of the most beloved and classic RPGS have none of these things, as well as no choices about the race and sex of your character. Are you saying that Planescape torment wasn't a RPG? How about Betrayal at Krondor? Risen and the Gothic series?

Personally I grew up playing games like Wizardry where there was no dialog, customization, c&c and where you were excited when the designers even went to the effort of including a room description.

 

[sakichop]

Bioware got tons of crap from people on this site because you couldn't choose race/sex/etc in DA2. Deus EX ____ comes along and you literally have to play one single guy with a silly beard and it's showered with near universal praise.

Hairstyle gender and romance are not necessary, but certainly they are a part of what goes into making an RPG… Do you disagree with that, or are you simply trying to slam me with some insult again?

Deus Ex____. An RPG? Nope. An action game? Yes.

I agree dx hr is more fps than rpg but I don't remember anyone claiming it was a hardcore rpg. I think most people here think it's a shooter with rpg elements. How much rpg each person can decide for themselves.

Ater reading all your posts your bioware bias is showing through. Why not say what's really going on you are angry that da2 gets slammed for it's dumbbing down and reduced rpg features. But deus ex is praised despite it's lack of rpg features.

The problem is no matter how much or how little rpg deus ex is it's still 100 times better game than da2.

 

[Thrasher]

DA2 failed for me not because of missing RPG elements, but because of poor game design: bad encounters, bad combat controls, and recycled areas. Not so much for missing RPG elements.

 

[DArtagnan]

OK, let's assume it's an RPG even if it isn't. Glad to have RPG Watch covering this game. Hooray.

Again, it's a hybrid. Just like Mass Effect 2.

You're welcome to keep on ignoring what a hybrid means, and I'm sure you're going to. This is obviously very important for you.

No I'm not obsessed with Bioware games. But Bioware on its worst day is better than this game, and gets way more criticism than this, and that makes no sense to me.

You still don't get it do you. YOU think Bioware games are better, and a lot of people don't. People criticise what they don't like.

Once again, Deus Ex is a hybrid game - and they've always been hybrid games. I don't know why you think that because you, being so ignorant of such an established franchise, expect others to be equally ignorant - but I guess it's possible.

The point is probably made by now: Ovenall doesn't think Deus Ex HR is an RPG. I think people got that message.

I don't expect anyone to take my opinion as gospel, but if ou're reading this just be aware that Deus ex ———— is not much of an rpg. If you think Bioshock is an RPG, then you might think this one is too. Otherwise it's an action game. Period.

If you think Mass Effect 2 is an RPG, then you might think this one is too. I don't even consider Deus Ex an RPG, but I'd stand by that.

I think one concept you're missing, is that Bioware deliberately and overtly moved away from the RPG genre for the sequels to RPGs. That's probably why a lot of people think their games have gotten worse.

Deus Ex HR moved TOWARDS the RPG genre from the last game, and they've held very true to the strengths of the original game. That's why the vast majority of people playing it like it so much.

You're coming here as a stranger to the genre, and you harp on the same message over and over: Deus Ex HR is not an RPG according to Ovenall.

It's like a Soccer player who took up Football and then told everyone else that Football isn't Soccer. Wow, the insight….

And it's pretty hokey. The main character voice acting is downright laughable at times. I can't even understand him as his sentences trail off into mumbles. And the silly sunglasses and facial hair. And the Boss guy's voice is really bad as well. This game is going to look silly in retrospect with all the huge amount of praise it's getting. It's a B-movie at best.

I like the main character voice acting a lot. Another thing you're probably ignorant of, is that it's meant to be a tribute to the original JC Denton, which is why he sounds partially "stiff and robotic". That's intentional.

As for the "silly sunglasses and facial hair" - I think that's pretty amusing coming from a fan of Bioware games. I mean, I don't think it gets more cliché or hokey than their stuff. Anyway, it's all subjective. I like the look of Adam Jensen, but I don't think it's particularly great. It's "just fine" to me.

The praise it's getting is probably mostly due to the gameplay. Something you've called good yourself. A balanced and thoroughly functional gameplay that plays extremely fair by the rules it has set for the player - apart from the admittedly silly boss fights. Something which Dragon Age 2 couldn't serve up if its life depended on it - which is probably a big reason why it's getting so much criticism. Need I bring up magically spawning waves of enemies?

Dragon Age 2 is a sequel to an RPG. It failed as a faithful successor, and it failed as a game according to most people here. Deus Ex is a stealth shooter with RPG elements, and Deus Ex HR is a sequel holding very true to that. It succeeded as a faithful successor and it succeeded as a game according to most people here.

I think that's pretty much it.

 

[DArtagnan]

Bioware got tons of crap from people on this site because you couldn't choose race/sex/etc in DA2. Deus EX ____ comes along and you literally have to play one single guy with a silly beard and it's showered with near universal praise.

Dragon Age is a sequel to an RPG with those features. Deus Ex HR is a sequel to a stealth shooter without those features, which in itself was a sequel to a stealth shooter without those features.

You get it by now?

Deus Ex____. An RPG? Nope. An action game? Yes.

It's a hybrid. It has elements of both in significant quantities.

 

[Thrasher]

Just saved a certain person in the beginning of return to a certain hub in a non-lethal way. Pretty hardcore scenario . Kudos to the devs for not taking any prisoners on this one.

How do you do this? Doesn't taking out the robot with an EMP count as "lethal"? Or is there a way to disable the robot in a non-lethal way? Please explain.

Around 11pm last night I gave it a rest after about 6 failed attempts. Not sure how I can take out the soldiers non-lethally fast enough to save the person… I can't see where the tranquilizer gun is pointing, and am lacking energy for fast takedowns.

 

[JDR13]

How do you do this? Doesn't taking out the robot with an EMP count as "lethal"? Or is there a way to disable the robot in a non-lethal way? Please explain.

Eh? It's a robot…take it out anyway you can. The only thing you have to worry about is killing soldiers who are standing too close to it when it explodes.

Around 11pm last night I gave it a rest after about 6 failed attempts. Not sure how I can take out the soldiers non-lethally fast enough to save the person… I can't see where the tranquilizer gun is pointing, and am lacking energy for fast takedowns.

What do you mean you can't see where the tranquilizer gun is pointing? Are you using the iron sights?

I completed that part using the tranq gun, but it wasn't easy. You have to move quick and start taking them out asap. I used a couple of concussion grenades to stun the heavy gunners for a few moments.. gas grenades would have helped a lot if I had any.

As soon as the robot is airdropped in, draw it's attention away from Malik. If not, it'll make short work of her.

 

[Thrasher]

So killing a robot doesn't ruin the pacifist achievement?

I haven't been using any guns, and this is the first time where it seems one is needed. It looks like I need to work on my mousekey mappings to turn on ironsights. For some reason my middle mouse button mapping doesn't work.

I've got some gas grenades, but they do damage, don't they? I also have some concussion grenades. I'll try those out too.

 

[JDR13]

Are you saying you've been playing the entire game up to this point without iron sights??

Gas grenades are non-lethal, and are great for knocking out groups of soldiers.

 

[Thrasher]

Nice to know. My experience with tunnels and gas and the first boss and gas killed me a few times, so I assumed gas is lethal.

I haven't been using a gun except for the boss battles, so I never bothered to get the ironsights working properly. Now apparently is the time...