Who will win the 2012 US Presidential Election?

[CountChocula]

Romney's biggest problem is lack of genuineness when it comes to relating to real people. His reaction to that supporter who told him about her problems with a lack of a job and not being able to pay her bills shows that ("Here's some pocket change").

Absolutely! According to Romney, he's an "unemployed" man who barely scraped by earning only $300,000 in speaking fees last year.

 

[Sir Markus]

I'm sure that Clinton easily doubled that with speeches last year. Come on, if you're going to bash conservatives, at least play fair, lol.

 

[BillSeurer]

Again, Sir Markus, Clinton didn't quip that he made "not much" from speaking fees like Romney did.

Clinton did not lecture the Republicans on morality like Newt lectures the Democrats (and everyone else). As for lying about affairs Clinton has nothing on Newt who was lying about his own affairs while chastising Clinton for lying about his. I suggest you look up hypocrisy.

 

[rossrjensen]

In my opinion, Romney's centrism is his problem. People don't want a centrist, they want a leader that will make the country a better place. They want change - and I think the vast majority of Americans want constitutionalism. Romney, in my opinion, just like most politicians, doesn't have a grand plan for making things better. He is just going to do whatever it sounds like the people want him to do. That's why people describe him as wishy-washy. He'll change his views based on what the majority wants. But, that's the problem, most people want leadership. They want someone with vision. It's a terrible shame that these people are generally discounted as "unelectable". I was not a fan of G.W. Bush because I disagreed with a lot of things he did, but one thing I can give him credit for is that he had some resolve and a vision. His vision just wasn't a good one.

Now time for a little rant. Trying to explain the complexity of personal ideology through a linear left-right spectrum has got to be the stupidest thing that the U.S. system encourages. It's just not that simple. If I was forced to describe myself on that spectrum, I would have to say that I am a moderate because my social views are far left and my economic views are far right. But there is absolutely nothing moderate about most of my views. In fact, most of them are pretty extreme. The left-right spectrum limits people from thinking about issues in any sort of abstract sense. It's a way of policing thoughts if I have ever seen one. Sorry, that is all.

 

[CountChocula]

I'm sure that Clinton easily doubled that with speeches last year. Come on, if you're going to bash conservatives, at least play fair, lol.

I think you misunderstand.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with his wealth. I was referring to Romney's comments that seemed to reflect a lack of understanding of the average person's point of view about money.

When he met with a group of unemployed people in Florida, he said "I'm also unemployed, like you." I get that he was trying to make a joke, but it rubbed some people the wrong way.

Last week, when asked about his personal income, he said "I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." - the amount he earned from speaking fees last year was $374,000.

During one of the debates a few weeks ago, he was quick to try to make a $10,000 bet with Perry.

All of these comments have had a negative impact on the public perception of him.

And for the record I'm a business owner and a fiscal conservative.

 

[Sir Markus]

Again, Sir Markus, Clinton didn't quip that he made "not much" from speaking fees like Romney did.

Clinton did not lecture the Republicans on morality like Newt lectures the Democrats (and everyone else). As for lying about affairs Clinton has nothing on Newt who was lying about his own affairs while chastising Clinton for lying about his. I suggest you look up hypocrisy.

So am I wrong in saying that you're liberal, and scared of Newt?

 

[CountChocula]

So am I wrong in saying that you're liberal, and scared of Newt?

I think his point was that Newt was trying to get Clinton impeached and putting on airs of indignation at his infidelity while at the exact same time he was cheating on his own wife with a congressional staffer (who later become his third wife).

Clinton and JFK may have been adulterers as well, but they didn't make a habit of casting stones at other cheaters while living in glass houses.

 

[Sir Markus]

In my opinion, Romney's centrism is his problem. People don't want a centrist, they want a leader that will make the country a better place. They want change - and I think the vast majority of Americans want constitutionalism. Romney, in my opinion, just like most politicians, doesn't have a grand plan for making things better. He is just going to do whatever it sounds like the people want him to do. That's why people describe him as wishy-washy. He'll change his views based on what the majority wants. But, that's the problem, most people want leadership. They want someone with vision. It's a terrible shame that these people are generally discounted as "unelectable". I was not a fan of G.W. Bush because I disagreed with a lot of things he did, but one thing I can give him credit for is that he had some resolve and a vision. His vision just wasn't a good one.

Now time for a little rant. Trying to explain the complexity of personal ideology through a linear left-right spectrum has got to be the stupidest thing that the U.S. system encourages. It's just not that simple. If I was forced to describe myself on that spectrum, I would have to say that I am a moderate because my social views are far left and my economic views are far right. But there is absolutely nothing moderate about most of my views. In fact, most of them are pretty extreme. The left-right spectrum limits people from thinking about issues in any sort of abstract sense. It's a way of policing thoughts if I have ever seen one. Sorry, that is all.

My problem with Romney is simple. I want a president that is basically going to undo everything Obama has done. I want a president that will undo the last 4 years, and I think Newt is the best option.

 

[zahratustra]

My problem with Romney is simple. I want a president that is basically going to undo everything Obama has done. I want a president that will undo the last 4 years, and I think Newt is the best option.

Brilliant! Just what country needs! Your candidate will spend 4 (or more) years undoing what Obama did. Than the next Democrat president will spend similar amount of time undoing what your candidate did. Round and round and round it goes. When it stops nobody knows…

 

[Sir Markus]

I don't really see your point, but at least I read your post.

 

[Pladio]

I'm sure that Clinton easily doubled that with speeches last year. Come on, if you're going to bash conservatives, at least play fair, lol.

Romney earned 40 million dollars over the past two years and only paid 6 million in taxes. That's 15%.

Average American earns approximately 40-50K and pays 35% taxes.

 

[Pladio]

I don't really see your point, but at least I read your post.

His point, I assume, was that you need long-term government, not short-term.

 

[Sir Markus]

You seem like a 'numbers guy' so how much did Newt make last year?

 

[Sir Markus]

Romney earned 40 million dollars over the past two years and only paid 6 million in taxes. That's 15%.

Average American earns approximately 40-50K and pays 35% taxes.

That's on invested income, not what he was paid.

 

[zahratustra]

His point, I assume, was that you need long-term government, not short-term.

Indeed.

 

[rossrjensen]

Romney earned 40 million dollars over the past two years and only paid 6 million in taxes. That's 15%.

Average American earns approximately 40-50K and pays 35% taxes.

Romney also gave another $7 million as charitable contribution, which qualifies for deductions. Where did you get your numbers for those averages and what exactly does that include? Federal Income tax brackets are 25% for people earning between about $33,000 and $82,000. You don't pay any taxes on the first $8,500 of your income. The amount you pay in state and local taxes can vary pretty drastically depending on where you live. Social Security and Medicare together make up nearly 15% of income. Property taxes also vary quite a bit depending on where you live. What about sales tax (again, depending on where you live)? Any long term capital gains are taxed at 15%. Any short term capital gains are included in your annual income figures and taxed at whatever income rate you are taxed at. Then of course there are deductions.

My point is that it is very complicated, and the amount you actually pay depends on a lot of things. Personally, I think income tax should be eliminated in favor of a national sales tax. People ought to pay based upon how much they consume, not how much they make (which is nobody's business in my opinion). To make it more fair to lower income people, goods like groceries and consumables, gas, and utilities could be exempt from the sales tax.

 

[rossrjensen]

Indeed.

Or, perhaps the system is designed as it is to resist change. Democracies are reactive, not proactive, and change is only achieved through a slow process of incrementalism. You could say that our two party system is only meant to change as our prism of "acceptable" political thinking changes. Rapid change will not occur unless their is a paradigm shift in society (again, the Great Depression is an example of this).

 

[BillSeurer]

So am I wrong in saying that you're liberal, and scared of Newt?

Nope. Newt pisses me off. He's one of the ones that helped destroy the old Republican party who used to run the candidates I always voted for.

 

[BillSeurer]

My problem with Romney is simple. I want a president that is basically going to undo everything Obama has done. I want a president that will undo the last 4 years, and I think Newt is the best option.

I really don't understand this. Seriously, what all has Obama done that is so bad? Be specific. He didn't undo the past 8 years of Bush and in fact continued much of what he did (which really POs a lot of my liberal friends BTW).

 

[rossrjensen]

I really don't understand this. Seriously, what all has Obama done that is so bad? Be specific. He didn't undo the past 8 years of Bush and in fact continued much of what he did (which really POs a lot of my liberal friends BTW).

Obamacare. I don't like what Bush did either, so I'm not about to claim he was any better. They each encouraged $700 billion bailouts. We just traded a fascist for a communist. They both want authoritarianism.