Age of Decadence - Video Preview @ IndieRPGs

[GothicGothicness]

It is also a story of a man that has better games to spend money on. Like the ones that actually let him roleplay and not punish him for it (I bought both WL2 and PoE).

And I wish you best of luck with your niche gaming community (even more niche than mine).

Punish you for role-playing is exactly what it doesn't do. However it punishes you for trying to role-play something that you don't have the skill for.

What would the point of skills be if they didn't affect the outcome of your role-playing? Then you're not looking for a game, but rather a story book.

 

[Archangel]

I love how everyone knows exactly how I build my character lol. I made a mercenary with all points into combat skills. First time I took a big weapon and got destroyed. 2nd time I went more defense and with a faster weapon and managed to win vs assassin.
This is how normal people create characters and play games. If I am expected to be a master of the mechanics to survive first two fights with multiple tries that is not a roleplay game but a powergamer/min maxer game.
When I played Blackguards or Xcom I knew they were not roleplaying games, but for AoD I was told it is a good roleplaying game. I guess I was a victim of false advertising.

It is too easy to hide problems of the game with these bad attempt at trying to show me as a bad player. I am sorry people but I been playing hard games for a long while, this game is just badly designed or for people that enjoy punishing gameplay at each corner.

 

[Pladio]

I don't want to sound offensive, but you might take this the wrong way though.

If you build your character with combat skills only (and that doesn't mean 1 point in each combat skill or something similar) and you don't manage to beat the assassin, then you are likely not good at the tactical combat.

I wouldn't blame you though as that isn't properly explained in the game really, but I would suggest watching the tutorial video Vince posted earlier.

I will reiterate the point in case it was missed.

If you use a :
- A pure combat build character focused on :
1. strength (e.g. 8)
2. dexterity (e.g. 10)
3. constitution (e.g. 6)
4. perception (e.g. 7)
5. one weapon skill (e.g. sword)
6. one defence skill (e.g. dodge)

- Use all the means at your disposal :
1. Different attack types (fast, power, arms, etc.)
2. Nets and bolas

—> You will be able to beat the assassin at least 95 out of 100 times.

Now the only thing missing here is your understanding of the combat system maybe, but other than that, I do not see how you can fail the assassin with such a combat build.

Maybe I'm being thick, which is possible, but I do not consider myself anywhere near as good as some of the people posting beating the bandit camp with hybrids builds and stuff, but with normal pure builds, I usually get through fights or talks quite easily...

 

[TomRon]

Archangel, it's fine if you don't enjoy the game, but don't go around saying it's "bad design". I really enjoy the game and love the fact that it's hard. It's not THAT hard once you know what you're doing though, but I sure as hell couldn't win a single battle until I dove deeper into the mechanics. Which is how I like it, and to me, good design.

 

[TomRon]

Pladio, he's not actually complaining about the Assasain but about the thugs, the assasain he beat when he put more emphasis on a combat character.

 

[Archangel]

Archangel, it's fine if you don't enjoy the game, but don't go around saying it's "bad design". I really enjoy the game and love the fact that it's hard. It's not THAT hard once you know what you're doing though, but I sure as hell couldn't win a single battle until I dove deeper into the mechanics. Which is how I like it, and to me, good design.

Look, I was happy to leave this topic alone and said it is not a kind of game everyone likes. , but these people continued to trying to show me as I don't know what and singling me out. Don't talk to me, talk to them. I have full right to present my full opinion if I am not going to be left alone.

 

[crpgnut]

Ugh! I would never play it after reading this thread. I wasn't a buyer anyway, but I can tell now that Iron Tower's design philosophy is totally opposite of what I find fun in games. Thanks, Archangel! I play games for relaxation and fun, not one mistake equals death trial and error. I just don't have enough hours of free time to play an unforgiving game.

The game sounds super-niche to me, but if there is a big enough audience for it....

 

[Pladio]

Look, I was happy to leave this topic alone and said it is not a kind of game everyone likes. , but these people continued to trying to show me as I don't know what and singling me out. Don't talk to me, talk to them. I have full right to present my full opinion if I am not going to be left alone.

The reason for that is probably because you said things like :

"bad design"
"I understand I can repeat these fights until I get enough good RNG rolls to succeed but that means nothing. "

Which suggest you do not understand the combat which again, makes sense as there is no full in-game tutorial for it. To which I say again, have a look at the video Vince posted.

 

[Archangel]

Why would I watch a video of a game I don't plan to buy or play anymore?

I told my piece, bad design is subjective thing. Just tell youself that not everyone needs to agree with you.

 

[VDweller]

I love how everyone knows exactly how I build my character lol.

Because we've been through it before (several released demos) and because the only people who complain about this particular fight are people who make beginners mistakes (which is expected) and give up before they can understand the system.

I made a mercenary with all points into combat skills.

Which tells me nothing.

First time I took a big weapon and got destroyed. 2nd time I went more defense and with a faster weapon and managed to win vs assassin.

This is how normal people create characters and play games. If I am expected to be a master of the mechanics to survive first two fights with multiple tries that is not a roleplay game but a powergamer/min maxer game.

You aren't expected to min-max. You're expected to test your newly created character and see if he/she is any good. It warns you about the design and challenge level (i.e. no filler combat).

There are quite a few proven fighter builds. In fact, there are heated arguments over which build/tactics are better (dodge or block, fast vs power, crafting or alchemy).

If you can't kill the assassin, your build sucks. If you can't kill the assassin and the thugs, either your build or understanding of the system (or both) are weak.

Mind you, only 10% of the players can save the trader, but everyone should be able to kill the assassin and the thugs after 2-3 attempts.

When I played Blackguards or Xcom I knew they were not roleplaying games, but for AoD I was told it is a good roleplaying game. I guess I was a victim of false advertising.

You keep sticking with this line.

Several people told you it's possible. It's not a false choice aimed to trick people. The problem is, you expect me to hand you a victory on a platter because you want to punish evildoers. I'm sorry but you'll have to earn it.

I am sorry people but I been playing hard games for a long while, this game is just badly designed or for people that enjoy punishing gameplay at each corner.

If you fail to succeed right away, the game is just badly designed. Got it.

 

[GothicGothicness]

VD hurry up and finish the game instead

 

[Pladio]

I don't need you to agree, but if you decide to talk about a game pretending you understand something, which you obviously don't, then you shouldn't find it strange people will tell you so.

Not only did you misunderstand the combat system, but also what your character was doing at the time, where you claimed to be honourable whilst your character protects a merchant selling stuff from a dead guy.

So while you may not be good at a game, calling it : "unfair and stupid towards players" will certainly raise eyebrows and arguments against you when your arguments are obviously unfounded.

If you're not happy with us saying you are wrong, that's fine but won't stop me from doing so in a public forum.

The one thing I do agree with you about is that the game is definitely not for you and is a niche game, but that does not make it a bad design, nor a stupid one.

 

[Pladio]

VD hurry up and finish the game instead

Vince, see this ! ^.^

 

[Archangel]

Look, I was happy to leave this topic alone and said it is not a kind of game everyone likes. , but these people continued to trying to show me as I don't know what and singling me out. Don't talk to me, talk to them. I have full right to present my full opinion if I am not going to be left alone.

I am quoting myself here because people in this topic obviously don't understand what personal opinion means and keep trying to show me as bad player or something.

Ok, your game beat me in first two fights.
And I don't find that fun although I don't have problems with any IE games, Blackguards, Xcom on Classic/Ironman, original Xcom, Xenonaus on harder difficulties and other harder games.
So congrats, you made an even more difficulty game where players need to minmax from start. That is unique for sure. Happy now?

 

[Pladio]

No, not really, because you fail to grasp the point...

1. The game isn't that difficult.
2. The reason we keep coming back at you is http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061287153&postcount=52

 

[VDweller]

So congrats, you made an even more difficulty game where players need to minmax from start. That is unique for sure. Happy now?

See, you keep doing it. Instead of simply saying 'the game isn't for me', like crpgnut did, you claim that it's:

- unfair
- poorly designed
- not a role-playing game (you even worked in false advertising claim there)
- forces you to min/max

While it's your god-given right to believe all of the above, you shouldn't be surprised that some people disagree with these points and try to explain why it's not the case.

 

[SirJames]

It's a hard game.

I grew up playing games like Bards Tale and Curse of the Azure Bonds, I love Dark Souls and think the difficulty is wildly over-rated, but this game…

I think its a pride issue. I want to take the combat option every time, be the hero, kill 'em all, but it's really not always viable. Doesn't stop me from trying, though.

In most games you're the center of the universe. Everything and everyone is made just for you. Someone mentioned before the assassins in Candlekeep at the start of Baldurs Gate. The ones who you turn to gibs with a single blow. Why would anyone send a 1hd assassin after a fucking Baal Spawn?! Have you even seen the slayer form he can turn in to?! Well, it just so happens that because everything is made just for you, you'll only run into kobolds and hobgoblins when you're low level and only meet the harder encounters as you're ready to handle them.

AoD takes a different approach. Similar to real life, you actually can get in over your head. The streets are dangerous! You have to keep your wits about you. If someone sends an assassin for you you better believe that it's up to the task. Sometimes, as unheroic as it may seem, you just have to lower your gaze, skulk away and live to fight another day.

I think my last play was an assassin with 7STR 10DEX 8PER, who used the fastest dagger I could find in main hand and a slower dagger with poison in offhand to start the fight. He went alright, but I still had to reload a bunch of times in the really tough fights.

Sometimes it can feel like you're just reloading until you get lucky with your THC. Miss that net, fail the dodge and you know you've lost already. Time to reload. You can start to wish you could just reroll the hit instead. You might think "maybe I'll just not do this fight", but then you wonder what kind of loot they have and the pride kicks in again and you refuse to let the game win. It requires quite an investment on the players behalf to play with this mentality but its so hard to shake it. I can't think of another game where I've rerolled my character so many times so close to the beginning. I think a lot of people with this attitude will put the game down, intending to return when they can be bothered, but then end up always too tired to be bothered and play something more fun.

Yes, I thought carefully about that word 'fun'. I had easy there for a while, but enjoyment is subjective and while the game they play will most definitely be more easy, they'll also have more fun playing it.

I had something else to add but it's really late and I just keep going blank and am having trouble articulating myself, so…

 

[VDweller]

Well said, SirJames.

 

[Archangel]

No, not really, because you fail to grasp the point…

1. The game isn't that difficult.
2. The reason we keep coming back at you is http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061287153&postcount=52

That is just your opinion, just as valuable as mine. My character was honorable towards his employer. Not the level of Samurai but enough so he follows his orders and tasks.

I don't fail to graps anything, you fail to grasp I am just stating my opinion and I have said that I accept this is not a game for me and couple of you kept coming and naming me personally because you are afraid my opinion is going to scare away other players.
So by trying to discredit me and show me as a bad player you think that will negate my opinion in eyes of others.

Do you also go to Steam forums and click Nay on each negative reviews? If you do, you can proudly call yourself a fanboy.

 

[SirJames]

My character was honorable towards his employer. Not the level of Samurai but enough so he follows his orders and tasks.

You say that your honor prevents you? Well, then your story is a short one. It's a story of a man who wanted to be honorable and it got him killed. The end.

xD

Do you also go to Steam forums and click Nay on each negative reviews? If you do, you can proudly call yourself a fanboy.

I'll never click like or dislike on anything, ever. I hate the new like system almost as much as I hate Facebook. Just saying.