In which Dart and Sir James discuss reality

[DArtagnan]

Don't blame Bill Gates for doing what his country and population almost begged him to do.

In America, you're supposed to aim very high in terms of monetary gain - and it's not terribly important how you go about it.

Also, if you're sufficiently wealthy - it means you're a much better person than other persons - and you will have easy access to all those delightful material things we so admire on this planet.

How can you blame someone for doing good in the way everyone around you is screaming into your face is the exact way to do good in - and which is the very dream you're supposed to never wake up from.

I certainly can't.

Also, as for brains, a significant portion of modern scientists are slowly waking up from the materialist view. It's becoming increasingly hard to deny that our being goes beyond the brain and body.

Apparently, the brain is merely some sort of transmitter or facilitator of limited Earth-bound perception - if these open and wise people are to be believed.

 

[SirJames]

I think he's going well beyond "living the American dream". He acts like some sort of philanthropist but he's just an evil wizard.

Remember, that "Dream" of money was reached decades ago but the ambitious can't be satisfied. It was ambition and intelligence that got him that far. Plus, did you know he stole his first computer? Didn't he also pinch the code to DOS from someone? You can see he's demonstrating all the traits of an EVIL wizard.

So, what's next, after he made enough money? The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for Population Control. Yes, that's was it was called.

But, I mean, would an INTELLIGENT evil wizard with plans of global domination actually ever write that he was evil anywhere? Admit that evil was the goal? Of course not!

So, when Bill Gates is the largest owner of farm land in the USA, owning near 400,000 acres. Buying up farms whenever they're for sale. What do you think is going on here? It doesn't make sense until you read about the globalist plans to build back better.

The plan is to have a much lower population and put everyone in Smart Cities while giving land back to nature to help with climate change. He's not buying farms to help feed people. It's quite the opposite.

You have to understand how a billionaire feels. IMPORTANT. The inflated ego is unlike anything you or I could understand. The power to buy countries. The money to influence whole economies. The evil wizard thinks it's HIS world.

When he goes over to India to help the farmers, he does nothing of the sort. He buys farms, forces them to buy GMO seeds that produce plants with infertile seeds so you HAVE to buy more GMO seed. Then he data mines them and sells the data back to them! Everywhere Gates has tried to "help" with farming he's crushed it and helped starvation.

You look at his vaccine work in India and Africa and he's just gone around sterilizing women.

He think's he'll help with malaria and introduces mosquitos that breed infertile offspring into the mosquito gene pool.

Honestly, you'd have to be insane to take a gene therapy endorsed by this evil wizard, if you were aware of his work after Microsoft.

He interested in population control and specialises in infertility.

Yes, he is trying to save the world. No, he's not interested in saving you.

But he's not the only evil wizard in the world…

 

[SirJames]

It's becoming increasingly hard to deny that our being goes beyond the brain and body.

Apparently, the brain is merely some sort of transmitter or facilitator of limited Earth-bound perception - if these open and wise people are to be believed.

Tell me more about this?

Who says this, why do they say it?

It's time to move on from Bill and talk about James Gates?

Hang on, ARE YOU A SIMULATION?! XD

 

[DArtagnan]

I think you must have missed the Reagan era and the time leading up to it - which was probably the most influential for a guy the age of Gates.

I don't think my description of the primary motivator was exaggerated with that in mind, quite the contrary.

Anyway, your obsession with but one example of what will inevitably happen to the few people who can succeed under those conditions is interesting, but not nearly interesting enough to go on about it

Switch it up a bit. How about Bezos? Did he make a bad OS for PC as well? I forget.

 

[DArtagnan]

Tell me more about this?

Who says this, why do they say it?

It's time to move on from Bill and talk about James Gates?

Hang on, ARE YOU A SIMULATION?! XD

Oh, I forget all the names.

I think much of it is the result of modern studies of things like NDEs, the placebo effect, impact of meditation and so forth.

You can check out a ton of these guys on YT.

Here's a random YT video - that's a bit older, but I'm too lazy to do the work for you.

 

[SirJames]

Oh, I'm not really into near death experiences. It's too hard to know if its just a malfuntion. Like, you could hear similar things from someone who takes a lot of hallucinogenics and thinks they spoke to spirits or aliens or whatever.

There are a lot of bodies and seems to be no limit of souls. So, I wonder if it's just one soul and everyone makes a copy of it rather than are there trillions of souls waiting in another reality for a body to become available. Which is what you might hear from Buddhism or whatever where karma is like your points to buy the best body with next game.

I was thinking more something like this

 

[SirJames]

You sound like you might have had first hand experience?

NDE would be pretty hard to study. What sort of measurements could be made in a study. It's like... Opps, no pulse. WE'RE LOSING HIM! No, wait, the EKG looks like Jesus!!

Placebo there plenty of studies. There's definitely a mind-over-matter thing going on, but I'm not convinced that's connection to another dimension. Optimism is important. Like when one of my grandparents died the other was soon to follow. You need will to be alive.

But it does stand to reason that fear mongering about corona virus is counter-productive. Of course, you won't be seeing any placebo study done for this vaccine.

Meditation, again, I'm no expert. But I do know it's mostly about breathing and being calm. You take in more oxygen, you stay still and use less and that's good for you. Low oxygen in blood is no good for you. It helps to raise it. But I don't see any connection there to other dimensions.

But, I'm not being closed minded. I'm quite interested in the nature of existence. Why is does anything exist?! It makes no sense!!

 

[SirJames]

Oh, boring! You can't tease me with something like that then not put out!

Would you prefer to take the convo to another room? You worried about staying on topic?

That's such a stupid thing to worry about. When you invite someone over to your house and have a conversation the topic changes. A good conversation can go for hours and cover every topic in your life. You don't have to change rooms every time you change topics!

We're here, we're connecting, a healthy conversation is born and making natural progression into other topics. Then along comes some control freak with a rulebook who wants to crush conversations for the sake of rules. But we're here for conversations! No one has a fucking clue how to talk because of these imaginary walls we like to shove in front of people. Oh, is it neater? Does that help people access information more easily? The fact is no one is going to be bothered to post a new thread every time the topic in a conversation changes. Can you imagine how anal the person who did that would be?

Well, I don't think you need to worry about that. This is the trash forum. You don't need your RPG site to have neat and orderly rubbish about politics and religion. We come here to talk shit and enjoy freedom, whether that be to offend people with polarising political views or talk about how meaningless politics is in a universe of wonder.

Anyway, I think the theoretic physics angle is the most compelling. I'm mostly a man of science rather than faith or hallucination. Those seem to be the main areas who think about something more. That's why I don't buy into this corona virus crap! No enough faith, no enough hallucination! "Trust the science", they say. Oh, I trust the science. Just not the evil wizards.

I'd say your examples are closer to the faith angle with meditation and NDEs and that kinda thing. Like witchcraft and cleansing your rocks under moonlight and all that.

I suppose that could lead us back into politics with Rippers Satanist Global Lizards or whatever. Sacrifices have been around for a long time. There's no doubt some people still like to get oldschool with their religious rituals.

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm not really into picking a side - which is probably the reason I'm agnostic. I don't think sticking to one side or the other is great for being open-minded - which is what I prefer to attempt.

I don't think you quite understand that I'm talking about science - as you understand the concept, anyway.

But it's not old science - it's new science. To you, it's unfamiliar science - as it probably is to many closed-minded "fans of science".

Many of the guys I'm talking about consider it potential support of quantum physics - which I guess is the sort of thing you'd probably need to hear, to pay more attention to it. Probably sounds better than a "mystical near-death experience" I would expect.

As for faith - I don't really think I have any in the traditional sense. But if new science seems like faith at first, then that's ok.

But the topic is a little boring - as I've sort of moved past the initial stages of doubt for the sake of tradition, and I don't find much entertainment value in being stuck in the past

Well, unless I replay old games!

So, while I'm very far from convinced that consciousness comes from somewhere outside our brains - I'm taking the possibility seriously now. Very seriously, I have to say.

 

[SirJames]

Yeah, you could say I'm agnostic. It seems like atheist is just another zealous religion in itself. I think if you ever find yourself in a situation where you're sure you know everything about something then you're a fool. That's why I like to roleplay the other side of the corona virus in here. Gotta keep people thinking.

I don't understand. What is this new science? The science of that which is beyond comprehension?!

You have loads of faith. It goes beyond religion. For example, you have faith that the money you have listed in the banks computer has value. Imagine if everyone lost faith in that. Faith is built into many of societies systems. You have faith that there's a corona virus. You haven't seen it. I'm sure you can find me a photo of ebola or ecoli from a high power microscope. But no corona. You just have faith its true because the high priests say so. To deny it is blasphemy!

Old games, huh? I actually went back and had a look at the new WoW expansion. Rerolled a Warrior. Shhh, don't tell anyone! Did you try that new expansion?

Playing any other old games?

 

[DArtagnan]

Yeah, you could say I'm agnostic. It seems like atheist is just another zealous religion in itself. I think if you ever find yourself in a situation where you're sure you know everything about something then you're a fool. That's why I like to roleplay the other side of the corona virus in here. Gotta keep people thinking.

I don't understand. What is this new science? The science of that which is beyond comprehension?!

You have loads of faith. It goes beyond religion. For example, you have faith that the money you have listed in the banks computer has value. Imagine if everyone lost faith in that. Faith is built into many of societies systems. You have faith that there's a corona virus. You haven't seen it. I'm sure you can find me a photo of ebola or ecoli from a high power microscope. But no corona. You just have faith its true because the high priests say so. To deny it is blasphemy!

Old games, huh? I actually went back and had a look at the new WoW expansion. Rerolled a Warrior. Shhh, don't tell anyone! Did you try that new expansion?

Playing any other old games?

Science as in making statistically significant empirical studies - and doing the usual scientific research involving testing and verification. Countless studies involving hundreds and thousands of people - under (reasonably) controlled conditions.

For instance, a ton of studies have been done on NDEs experienced by people having a cardiac arrest - because that's one area where medical doctors can establish the state of the brain to a somewhat accurate degree, based on current knowledge. But it's only "reasonably" controlled - as you can't manually induce death - or near-death - and defend it ethically. In fact, one of the hardest parts of doing these studies has been related to ethics and the limitations involved.

The new part is what's being studied - which is a combination of many things - but I would say you can sort of sum it up as "enhanced consciousness" - as in, consciousness that goes beyond what we can possibly perceive from a materialist point of view - meaning a traditional and old scientific point of view, from a time when we didn't have access to this kind of study.

As an example, it's still relatively recent that we developed the ability to resuscitate people effectively, so the cardiac arrest studies would have been impossible a handful of decades ago - which is why the hard data I'm referring to is quite new in the field of science.

As for faith, I specifically pointed out that I'm talking about it in a traditional sense. I'm not talking about having faith in water being wet - but in terms of religion or superstition, things of that nature.

 

[SirJames]

So, what have the studies on NDE found? Are the proving the survivors are actually talking to God and the light at the end of the tunnel has been measured in lumens or what?

What do you mean by "consciousness that goes beyond what we can perceive"?

Well, a religion is faith. Be that a cult of the flying spaghetti monster or the Followers of Lord Covid.

One of the things a famous atheist said is when people call him an atheist he points out there are hundreds or thousands of gods and religions and they only believe in 1 making them 0.001% theist and him a close 0.000.

Here, have a funny political video I just watched. Passing it on!

It's funny because it's true! (But also fails to mention Americas interests in the region…)

 

[DArtagnan]

So, what have the studies on NDE found? Are the proving the survivors are actually talking to God and the light at the end of the tunnel has been measured in lumens or what?

What do you mean by "consciousness that goes beyond what we can perceive"?

Well, a religion is faith. Be that a cult of the flying spaghetti monster or the Followers of Lord Covid.

One of the things a famous atheist said is when people call him an atheist he points out there are hundreds or thousands of gods and religions and they only believe in 1 making them 0.001% theist and him a close 0.000.

Here, have a funny political video I just watched. Passing it on!

It's funny because it's true! (But also fails to mention Americas interests in the region…)

The studies have found that these people can perceive things when there's no activity in the brain of any known kind (no electrical activity, no blood being fed, no gag reflex, no pupil response, established non-functioning cerebral cortex, etc.) - and they can accurately convey things that happen during this seemingly complete lack of consciousness. They can detail what people said and did during their NDE (like the medical personnel trying to revive them). Not only that, there are countless examples of people accurately reporting what goes on beyond the room in which their body lies - and this has been verified multiple times in these studies.

Another objectively verifiable change is that a very large percentage of people who have these experiences significantly alter their lives afterwards - and since the studies started a few decades ago, it's now possible to establish that these complete 180 degree changes in life has persisted throughout their lives.

Meaning, that even if this is an illusion (which it can't physically be based on current scientific knowledge of the brain) - it's an illusion that's powerful enough to make human beings completely change their beliefs and ways of living their lives within the span of a few years. We're talking atheists and hard-core "scientists" who have become highly spiritual and altruistic - completely counter to their past natures, not only according to themselves - but the people closest to them.

I would also consider such objectively verifiable evidence to be a very strong case against this being some kind of elaborate conspiracy or hoax.

 

[SirJames]

Sounds like the next new-age therapy will be a quick death and resuscitation.

Life in a rutt? Try suicide!

Maybe there's a link? Suicidal people are subconciously trying to get that NDE "reset" that will give them a new sense of motivation?

The thing is, If you have no brain activity or pulse… I don't understand how you can see whats going on in the other room without eyes.

It's very hard to imagine not having a body. Like, a "soul" floating off is made out of nothing. Light wont get trapped in it, like it does the eye.

Like, if you die young are you still young in heaven or what? It's like all the feelings we have can be explained by chemicals in the brain. No body, no chemicals. How are you supposed to have fun without senses. Since when do you get senses without a body?

It's a fun thought, though. I certainly can't even begin to explain how it's possible but it's a fun thought.

And you're right, It's quite well known that people have these NDE and turn their life around, divorce their partner or something. Go live life to the fullest. Or suddenly find God. They're very lucky to turn an experience like death into a positive transformation, the sort of breakthough years of verbal therapy only wishes it could achieve.

So, are you going to try it?

 

[DArtagnan]

Who knows, maybe - though I probably wouldn't risk such a thing while my parents and dog still live

But I might be convinced our consciousness is eternal and beyond our body just through research and listening to other people.

Certainly wouldn't mind being convinced of that, as it would make things a lot easier to deal with in many ways.

 

[SirJames]

Sounds like it might be dangerous to believe TOO much.

"If a dead person can use their soul to see in another room why do I need eyes? I have a soul? If a soul can see through walls surely it can see through my bloody eye sockets? My sight is a weakness! *cuts out eyes* I SEE EVERYTHING!! ITS BEAUTIFUL!!!"

Do you believe in astral projection? Maybe that's where you should start before getting into the hardcore shit? I don't think I can do it. I can't even lucid dream. I can be constantly woken up by noises and be half asleep but the moment I'm actually asleep I have no control over things at all. Really wish I did. Why would you ever want to be awake if you could pick your dreams?

 

[Ripper]

<Dart has entered the chat>

 

[DArtagnan]

Sounds like it might be dangerous to believe TOO much.

"If a dead person can use their soul to see in another room why do I need eyes? I have a soul? If a soul can see through walls surely it can see through my bloody eye sockets? My sight is a weakness! *cuts out eyes* I SEE EVERYTHING!! ITS BEAUTIFUL!!!"

Do you believe in astral projection? Maybe that's where you should start before getting into the hardcore shit? I don't think I can do it. I can't even lucid dream. I can be constantly woken up by noises and be half asleep but the moment I'm actually asleep I have no control over things at all. Really wish I did. Why would you ever want to be awake if you could pick your dreams?

I don't really believe in anything non-material at this point - but I remain open to the possibility

As for consciousness beyond our bodies - I don't struggle too much with how that might work.

Think of your body and brain as a very limited headset - suppressing most of your perception, leaving you with only a handful of limited senses.

It would be like taking off a 90s era VR headset and discovering the real world for the first time.

I imagine it's something like that.

Another way to look at it is that your consciousness is you - and your brain and body is your car. You're just stuck in it - and you can only drive it for so long until it breaks down. Then, you either stay away from cars - or you go drive another one

Again, based on NDEs - it's apparently possible to travel back and forth in time as if it didn't actually exist. More than half of these people report a highly detailed "life review" experience, where they not only relive all their past experiences - usually from the moment of birth until the current time (and a few examples of future experience as well) - they also experience these events from the perspective of other people they have affected through their actions, like friends, loved ones or siblings. Most of it seems to deal with how they hurt people in some way and didn't show love when they could have.

Sounds pretty sappy, doesn't it? Yet hundreds or even thousands of people have reported the exact same thing. You can find dozens of exhaustive accounts on YT from what appears to be very emotional and frank people who can remember these things in vivid detail. Considering they were all but brain-dead when it happened, it's remarkable that they still tell the same unaltered story many, many years after it happened. Especially since, according to modern science, you can't form any memories at all during this state.

Kinda weird that thousands of people would tell extremely similar stories - even from back when NDEs weren't a thing in the public eye.

All I can say is that if it's a hoax, it's definitely the most convincing hoax I've witnessed since Star Citizen

As for lucid dreaming - I've had a couple of experiences in my early 20s, which were a large part of why I developed anxiety back then. I was even more of a materialist at that time (a moron just having exited his teens), so the perception of floating outside my own body wasn't exactly pleasant. I was, in fact, convinced I was going insane or something along those lines.

So, they weren't much fun you might say.

But I've learned to deal with my anxiety very effectively - so it has a very negligible effect on me these days.

 

[Myrthos]

That is a lot of text to read, fortunately I lack the time

 

[MAHak]

An interesting conversation you got going there James and Dart, I’d love to chime in, but could some mod/admin perhaps make it into another thread. The “politics, religion and other controversies” forum seems to be pretty low on “religion and other controversies” threads anyway.