Hey guys,
After all is said and done it really just comes down to "How do we label certain games?"
Not really. The differences between games such as Wizardry 8 and Planescape will exist regardless of what people choose to label them as.
I'm attempting to use well-known and well-understood words such as adventure game and CRPG in their historical context as a short hand but if I can't use those words without getting bogged down in useless semantics debates then I'm fine with just describing what I'm talking about in more detail.
Like I mentioned above, all PnP game systems describe a set of rules within which one's character is given certain capabilities, limitations, and avenues for advancement in power, in strictly quantifiable terms. Those 'stats' tend to be used within easily quantifiable contexts, such as combat.
If there are other quantifiable ways in which to test one's character's advancement, then they can also be easily added into the system. Lock picking, persuasion, etc. Many of these things get pretty nebulous and end up requiring a lot of "DM discretion" because it turns out that they're not as quantifiable as one might like them to be. Combat is a perfect fit and has served the role of providing a measuring stick for player advancement for that reason.
Without something quantifiable like that which can provide the hooks for a rich combination of options and choices for character definition and development, we're a group of people sitting around a table playing make-believe.
Or, sitting in front of a computer working though a choose-your-own-adventure with pictures.
Whoever said above that they don't understand why I brought up trading card games or board games in this discussion... that's my point.
it's because the game design principles in those games are the same ones used in PnP rulesets, broadly speaking. But one would have to understand the first thing about game design before that became apparent.
it's beyond debate that a good ruleset for quantifiable, balanced, and rich advancement in power of one's character in an RPG promotes fun.
But if all you're interested in is an escapist story or a fantasy world to explore, then even the best such system will be meaningless to you.