Are Casuals Killing Gaming?@ Gameplayer.com.au

[txa1265]

The thing that gets me is that folks treat casual / hardcore like some sort of clear black/white dichotomy ... when it should be clear to anyone intelligent that we're talking about a continuum - and one that people can glide back and forth on.

Someone talked about how so many publishers are trotting out scads of 'Carnival Games' clones, and Wii Sports/Play/Whatever clones and so on, so that in the battle for shelf space there is 90% crap and licensed crap and so much of it looks the same that consumers have little chance to find something that is both fun and of reasonable quality.

In other words, what D'Artagnon said ... 'tis greed killed the game ...

 

[curious]

i have to say mcdonalds DOES kill smaller resturants. smaller business don't have ads they can bombard their viewers with first off. secondly why many resturants aren't any greater than others, and the proprieters can never hope to have the marketing savy of a high paid executive they can offer high quality and unique food like niche games. the problem is people are cheap and lazy and so they line up for mcdonalds 90% of the time, especially the convience of a "guilt free" stop where you can just slip some money to someone in a window and make off with your package of "substances of little or no nutrition". subway for example has crushed many businesses with their clever 5 sandwiches. people want a good deal usually more than a meal that they can savor for a long time. same goes with causal games--trial and error? who has time for these things? why do i have to keep reading all of this dialogue? there is obviously value in convience and some aspects of that in everything from food and games but having these "to big to fail" mcdonalds, wal marts, ea's do infact swallow far more good companies than they do display the quality of those which they assimilate. ea for example is only "successful" and able to absorb lossess because of steady income from the loyal fans who buy (upgrade) their sports games every season.

but hey i don't play spiderweb games either, purchase 100% organic foods, or only shop only at small businesses but i do try swim out to that imaginary utopian island everytime against the tide that keeps growing larger and pushing back.

 

[TheMadGamer]

My gaming 'grass roots' are heavily tied to 80s/90s style PC RPGs (ie Ultima Series, Wizardry Series, Bards Tale Series etc.).

That said, I still have managed to own most videogame consoles over the decades. All those years, I always considered, with a few exceptions, videogames to be 'casual.'

With the advent of the WII and mobile phone gaming, there has been a glut of 'Casual Games.' Walk into your local gaming store and you will see 'Summer Games,' 'Playground Games,' 'Sports Bar Games' etc. for the WII.

I have to admit that while I enjoy my WII, the glut of 'casual' type games for the system is a little too much.

On the flip side, considering the 'gloom and doom' state of the current world economy, I can't help but feel that any type of trend in the industry that can better help stabalize it or, gasp, grow it, even if it means casual games galore, then perhaps it can't all be a bad thing.

As a witness of the mult-decades long belief that 'the pc is dying...' I don't see casual type games killing 'hardcore' games. As long as there is a market for any type of game that would be considered niche (aka hardcore) there will be a developer and publisher to fill it.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

In other words, what D'Artagnon said ... 'tis greed killed the game ...

I think everyone knows this. Or should.

But no-one does a thing about it.

It's like Hedge-Funds: Buying a company, squeezing every tiny bit iout of it for profits, and then selling the almost-bancrupt company to someone else.

That's why they're called "locusts" in Germany recely.
Like the swarms of them.

 

[Maylander]

Oh my, someone is killing gaming? Is gaming dying? Why didn't anybody tell me? I have a hobby that's dying!

Let's see, incoming games include:
- Risen
- Dragon Age
- Mass Effect 2 & 3
- Alpha Protocol
- Aliens RPG
- Possible NWN2 expansion
- More stuff involving The Witcher?
- Gothic 4 could be decent, but I have more faith in Risen
- And so on..

I honestly don't think gaming is dying in any way, which means noone is killing it either. This might not be the golden era (1996-2001 or so, where we got a redicilous amount of good RPGs), but it's pretty good compared to any other time in gaming history.

 

[Prime Junta]

Oh my, someone is killing gaming? Is gaming dying? Why didn't anybody tell me? I have a hobby that's dying!

Let's see, incoming games include:

- Risen: Promising.
- Dragon Age: Originally promising, but I'm about ready to give up on these.
- Mass Effect 2 & 3: Meh. I'm not expecting much of these.
- Alpha Protocol: Promising.
- Aliens RPG: Meh.
- Possible NWN2 expansion: Rumor.
- More stuff involving The Witcher?: Rumor.
- Gothic 4: Possibly.
- And so on..: Such as?

That's two genuinely promising games that may or may not come out this year, plus one or two more that might come out in 2010, plus one or two more that might be positive surprises. Fairly slim pickings, methinks.

I honestly don't think gaming is dying in any way, which means noone is killing it either. This might not be the golden era (1996-2001 or so, where we got a redicilous amount of good RPGs), but it's pretty good compared to any other time in gaming history.

I agree that gaming isn't dying, but IMO it's a far cry (yes, that was intentional) from thriving either.

 

[Maylander]

To me, the first five points are all "very promising". As for the "and so on":
- Divine Divinity 2: Ego Draconis
- Two Worlds: The Temptation
- Drakensang in English
- Dungeon Hero
- Grotesque (if this ever gets released, that is)
- NWN2: Mysteries of Westgate
- NWN2: Black Hound (this one will probably be free, but still promising!)

The list goes on, of course, but this was merely what I managed to come up with at the moment. Also, we're only talking about RPGs here - gaming in general has dozens of titles worth looking forward to. Personally I'm looking forward to various RTS games in addition to the RPGs mentioned. I can't remember the last time I actually had 20+ titles I looked forward to.

 

[Prime Junta]

Of that list, I'll give you DD and Drakensang, with MoW and BH in the "might be a positive surprise but unlikely" bin.

From the non-RPG stuff, I'm looking forward to Empire: Total War. As long as TW is going strong, there's no way anyone can claim that PC gaming is dying.

 

[Zaleukos]

To be fair I dont think there are all that many years since 1995 or os that saw the release of more than two good RPGs. The genre was a niche even in the past, and there arent that many established players involved. We certainly didnt average two good RPGs a year during 2002-2008, and I wonder if we even had that luxury during the 1997-2001 golden age of Baldurs Gate and Fallout... Even historically I'd say a year that sees a Mass effect sequel, a Drakensang, and one genuinely exciting title is pretty dandy...

As for ETW the release has been postponed by a month, I wonder if that is a sign of a messed up dev cycle or if CA finally has decide to take the time needed for proper quality control. At any rate I'll wait for two patches before killing the hapless AI in a total war game.

 

[DArtagnan]

Oh my, someone is killing gaming? Is gaming dying? Why didn't anybody tell me? I have a hobby that's dying!

Let's see, incoming games include:
- Risen
- Dragon Age
- Mass Effect 2 & 3
- Alpha Protocol
- Aliens RPG
- Possible NWN2 expansion
- More stuff involving The Witcher?
- Gothic 4 could be decent, but I have more faith in Risen
- And so on..

I honestly don't think gaming is dying in any way, which means noone is killing it either. This might not be the golden era (1996-2001 or so, where we got a redicilous amount of good RPGs), but it's pretty good compared to any other time in gaming history.

I don't think it's useful to list speculation as things to look forward to.

Anyway, the titles that are reasonably certain to be relased in a timely fashion, are mostly obvious derivative mass market bores. This includes Gothic 4, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect.

I'm personally hopeful about Aliens, because I adore the setting - and after Storm of Zehir, I'm starting to have a little faith in Obsidian. Alpha Protocol is not my cup of tea, but it just might scratch the right itch for some of you guys.

Risen is about the only game that I'm relatively certain to enjoy, and hopefully it won't be as silly as Gothic 3 in terms of combat and lack of a compelling story.

Not exactly the brightest of futures for one such as myself, but I can live with it.

Then again, I never thought PC gaming was dying. But I don't have to think or ask anyone to know that it's changed significantly, and it'll only get worse before it gets better. But that's just for people like me. Casuals have many years of great gaming to look forward to, and one day we'll probably meet somewhere in the middle.

 

[Sergius64]

I haven't been paying much attention to Dragon Age, so I'm left wondering: what caused the sudden drop of excitement over this game? Did I miss something?

 

[Prime Junta]

Gaider published the first chapter of his Dragon Age novel. Some of us thought it... wasn't great.

 

[zakhal]

PC gaming is doing great? Best selling pc games of 2008:

Originally Posted by IGN Best-selling PC Games of 2008 Citing NPD numbers
1. World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King Expansion Pack (came out in November)
2. Spore
3. World of Warcraft: Battle Chest
4. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
5. Warhammer Online: Age Of Reckoning
6. Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
7. The Sims 2 Double Deluxe
8. World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King Exp Pk Collector's Ed
9. Fallout 3
10. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack
11. Call Of Duty: World At War
12. The Sims 2 FreeTime Expansion Pack
13. World Of Warcraft
14. Sins Of A Solar Empire
15. Warcraft III Battle Chest
16. The Sims 2 Apartment Life Expansion Pack
17. Crysis
18. Left 4 Dead
19. Diablo Battle Chest
20. The Orange Box

Wow, wow more of wow, sims, diablo, sims, warcraft3, failed mmo, another failed mmo, one old mp game from valve, one new mp game from valve, one benchmark fps game, previous version of call of duty, next version of call of duty, game where you can create goatse creatures and one new rts game.

Well atleast there was fallout3 allthough half of pc players spent most of the year bad-mouthing it because its not a copy of the previous fallout that was released 10 years ago.

 

[Gorath]

NPD neither covers online sales nor download sales nor revenues through item sales (typical Asian MMOs).

As one of the Bioware doctors said a couple of days ago: The PC market is healthy but it's changing. The industry needs to adapt. (paraphrased)

 

[Thoth]

Hey all

I'd say the problem lies with game companies essentially being a typical corporation out to make money the safest, surest, and cheapest way. If any of you have ever heard some of the stories of those old game companies, it always seems to be the same thing: brilliant people forgo promising careers in order to pursue a passion that has little to no chance of actually returning much of a profit. And you can see this very passion in the old games we all love.

Games today seem to be all blockbuster special effects and such because that's what casual gamers like the most. I don't think such gamers are bad, heck I played in a few competitive teams for Call of Duty 4 so I can certainly appreciate these sort of games. I just wish big time games didn't have to squash the little guys is all, especially when the little games are actually more enjoyable. I sometimes get depressed by what's been coming out, but every once in awhile I'm surprised. Maybe the Golden Age of games really is over, and it's a matter of opinion when it began and when it ended.

 

[Cabel Blacke]

As long as there is a market for any type of game that would be considered niche (aka hardcore) there will be a developer and publisher to fill it.

Yes, this is my feeling too. Niche gamers will get their product in the end. It may not have the latest 3D graphics and might be a bit low-fi in other respects, but in the end those things aren't really what niche gamers are after. We want quality design, quality gameplay, quality writing, and quality art style and none of those things require a 10 million dollar budget.

 

[Sergius64]

Gaider published the first chapter of his Dragon Age novel. Some of us thought it... wasn't great.

Well, a bad story doesn't mean the game will suck. It could be redeemed through good gameplay elements. Although Bioware games do tend to be all about the story...

 

[Corwin]

And don't forget the planned release of U6P by the end of the year. Most of the world building is now complete and it's close to being on track for an end of year release.

 

[DArtagnan]

I haven't been paying much attention to Dragon Age, so I'm left wondering: what caused the sudden drop of excitement over this game? Did I miss something?

In my case, it wasn't so sudden. Though the lack of multiplayer certainly did its part.

I think it's been a slow realisation of what Bioware has become, by taking a hard look at Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and the EA merger.

There's just no other way for me to see this, and Dragon Age can't possibly be anything other than a mass market streamlined game - where I originally hoped for an evolution of Baldur's Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights.

 

[Maylander]

A list of best selling games doesn't prove anything. RPGs weren't "best sellers" back in the days either. Only Baldur's Gate was a real hit - every other title from the golden era only had mediocre sales (Fallout, PS:T, Arcanum, etc).

Personally I agree with Zaleukos - I can't recall any specific year that saw more than 1-2 good RPGs. Perhaps if you dig up *the* best year in the late 90s you might find a single year that stood out among the rest, but usually we get:
- One solid RPG experience
- A few mediocre ones
- A few crap ones