Decrypting the Elder Scrolls @ GameInfomer

I'm not sure that I would agree that The Elder Scrolls encourages ultra-balanced, "master of all trades" character builds.

That's not what Dhruin said though, he said "generalist characters", and I agree with him.

While grinding long enough to "master" everything would take forever, it's pretty easy to become good at just about everything. When I played Morrowind, I had a fairly high score in every skill except for the weapon skills that I ignored completely. That was in a game that I didn't even finish, and also didn't explore the Tribunal or Bloodmoon areas.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,443
Location
Florida, US
That's not what Dhruin said though, he said "generalist characters", and I agree with him.

I think I explained my opinion poorly then, or perhaps slightly misinterpreted the quote; I tend to think of a generalist character in an RPG to mean almost the same thing as being a "master of everything" character.

Both you and Dhruin have a very valid and good point, and I'm not at all trying to say that either of you is "wrong" in any way. Yes, generalist characters by your definition can occur (meaning not maxed out at everything, but good at a lot of things if I'm interpreting your meaning correctly this time). I was more playing the "Devil's Advocate" and trying to explain what I think the strengths of the system are and why, despite the flaws, I think it generally works for The Elder Scrolls, even if it's far from perfect. Generalist characters can be a flaw in an rpg; characters can become over-powered in Morrowind's limitless system and being good at too many many skills takes away from the immersion of an rpg.

With that being said, I still enjoyed the customization that is available to players in Morrowind. I found the freedom that is offered in character development to be a refreshing change of pace from the rigid class systems of other rpgs because it allows players to build a character however they want. I think that in some rpgs, the structured classes can be pretty boring; warriors are pure tanks or heavy damage builds, mages are completely weak in melee combat but strong ranged combatants, etc. This is in no way a significant problem because it does balance the game fairly well and allows for a more "realistic" role-playing system, even if it is a bit bland in some games and predictable. Having a defined structure isn't a problem because of the balance, as well as believability and immersion, that a structured system brings. However, I enjoyed being able to create a character in Morrowind that could, for example, be a mage and still hold its own in melee combat. I didn't abuse the system because that would take away the role-playing aspect, so I didn't have many non-related skills developed from what build I had in mind, such as stealth, archery, persuasion, etc. So I guess if you stay true to what "class" you create and avoid abusing the system, then it works decently well.

I think a solution to solve the "generalist character" problem in Elder Scrolls and improve the role-playing aspect would be to still allow players to "tag" the major and minor skills that they want to develop in character generation, and either completely eliminate other skills from being developed or limit how far those skills can be improved (set a cap somewhere between 25-50? Maybe lower?) and also set a reasonable cap for the minor skills. I think this would still allow for a good amount of customization while eliminating the possibility of generalist characters.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
1,022
IMO:

The problem with the skill system isn't about balance or the lack of it.

The problem is that it's boring as hell. In a typical CRPG you get rewarded as you develop your character, whether that be through levels or skills. You typically get new "toys" as well, as in new powers as your character grows.

That's completely missing in Morrowind and almost in Oblivion - where they at least gave you a few powers at intervals of 25. You basically do the EXACT same thing from the beginning to the end as any kind of fighter or archer. You fight and fight and get "+1 blade" with absolutely no discernable effect. What's worse, in Oblivion, they even scale enemies directly to your level - so you won't EVER feel you're actually getting better. Even if they didn't, it'd be hard to detect any change. Yes, they have the spell designer for mages - and you can play around with a bunch of samey effects - but I largely prefer "hand-designed" spells with a lot of unique purposes - rather than scaling damage/range. That's incredibly boring to me - and you end up with 3-4 spells you use, and nothing more. Talk about dull.

The concept of improving by doing is great, but you have to actually think about how your system works and how it's supposed to entertain people in a 100 hour+ experience. You don't go for the easiest and most streamlined approach - because that's just not fun.

It's like they designed the system without a game-brain - and they've yet to change it around. I can only hope they learned why Fallout 3 was a more entertaining game in that way.

The reason I get a little worked up about this, is that the rest of the game - ignoring dialogue/story - is pretty fantastic. They build great open worlds and the lore has a lot of potential (at least as it was in Morrowind) - and they understand how to implement freedom of choice. If only they understood gameplay, we'd have a bit of a miracle on our hands.
 
Last edited:
I think I explained my opinion poorly then, or perhaps slightly misinterpreted the quote; I tend to think of a generalist character in an RPG to mean almost the same thing as being a "master of everything" character.

The difference is worlds apart. I quite enjoy playing "jack of all trades, master of none" characters in most games. In the elder scrolls you'll end up the other way around with this approach. You can level up all skills you use and some, that have some appeal, but you'll never end up using with relative ease even by the end of main game if you explore around a bit. Add a few big quest mods into the mix and the picture gets worse.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
369
Location
Estonia
Back
Top Bottom