Dragon Age 2 - News Roundup #7

[Captain Buzzkill]

Borrowed a friend's PS3 and DA2 Friday night. I only got about 10 hours into the game, and I'm pretty sure I've done some irreparable damage to my marriage. I had planned on writing a brief little tidbit of my own, but the Worthgaming article pretty much sums up my feelings. One thing I hadn't thought of was the absolute glut of crap that you can loot from bodies, and how, after a while, anything greyed out and inconspicuously named was immediately consigned to the junk pile without looking over it.

If there's one thing I personally didn't like about the game, it was the ridiculously JRPG influenced weapon design. I equipped Hayder's Razor, rotated my character to look at it, and took it right back off. I'd rather fight with the trash weapon.

 

[azarhal]

Interesting, I was thinking about this when I read the review. What specifically are you referring to?

I was under the impression the customization of companions was improved in DA2 because their skill points would not be spent until you "acquired" them. But this review makes it seem exactly the other way round, so I assumed I got it wrong somehow. And now I am confused again…

I was definitely looking forward to improved companion customization in DA2, so I am eager to hear the actual truth.

When you acquire a companions their attributes points are spent, but not their talent points (their might be an auto-level up option that change that though). After that, when you level up companions, you will have both abilities and attributes points to spend, regardless if they are in your "squad" or waiting in their home base. So it's a good idea to gather them "fast" (Varric, sibling and Aveline you get early on. Anders and Merrill are gained through the main quests. Isabella and Fenris aren't.)

Also, you can give them trinkets (belt, amulet, rings) and weapons that match their talents (minus Varric, Bianca is linked to his "specialization"). Companion have specific class and can only use one type of "combat style" (minus the mages, they have different spells tree selections). I know that review talk about the only tank being Aveline, but that's not really true. She's the only companion that use sword&shield, you can spec her more toward damage if you want. Just like you can take "tanking" abilities for Fenris/Carver. Finally, increasing the friendship or rivalry also give a passive ability for free on each companions.

There is also improvements for the companions armors that you can find/buy to improve their armor stats. You can't change their look because they have their own life, job and agenda. Aveline "armor" change 3 time, because of her job (so far, I'm just in Act 2).

Although, what I really meant by they were wrong is that companions aren't two-notes nor mouth-pieces for the story point-of-view. Especially when compared to Mass Effect 2 companions. So far they are among BioWare best creations. They all have their on stories, background and future. And the banter is just awesome. Oh and the romance trap are easily avoidable this time around with the conversation symbols and you can have an heartbroken Hawke (mine his, will have to settle for best friend forever).

I will need to replay the game to see how much playing as an non-mage change the game too and try the rivalry and not just friendship stuff.

 

[JDR13]

Before the rise of "awesome" special effects, horror movies (and movies in general) actually needed to be extremely creative in order to achieve the desired emotional response from the audience.

Good comparison. I'm hard pressed to name any horror film from the last 10 years that I really liked. I thought the first couple of Saw films were decent, and I also liked The Ring and Quarantine to a degree, but when you compare those to classics like Alien or The Thing, they fail miserably.

 

[DeepO]

Spot on?

They are totally wrong about the companions…

Well, at least we agree that "they" are right about the rest .

So, what exactly is "totally wrong" when "they" say that:

"You can sometimes choose to branch them outside of this role, but there's little reason to do so. If you want a healing mage, you're stuck with Anders. You don't have the choice of making Merrill into your healing mage because she lacks the healing tree. All of Anders' unique abilities are geared toward making him the healing mage. Likewise, if you want a tank, you have to use Aveline."

"There are some cool elements to your party makeup, though. While you can't customize your party particularly well, you can set up synergy between your characters. In addition to the usual status effects that spells can inflict, certain attacks and abilities can inflict synergy-focused status effects."

"Most of the party members in Dragon Age II are terribly one-note and seem to exist only to be a mouthpiece for one of the game's two viewpoints. The characters in Mass Effect 2 or the original Dragon Age were fairly broad stereotypes, but at least they felt like characters instead of walking viewpoints. Rogue characters Varric and Isabella, who fell outside of the Mage/Templar divide, feel more like actual characters. To the game's credit, the characters develop through casual conversations as you're walking around. You find out about interpersonal relationships, and they have discussions that are unrelated to the divide. Unfortunately, if you happen to bring along characters who disagree, you can expect these character-building conversations to devolve into petty sniping."

The only part I disagree with is the use of "unfortunately" in the last quoted sentence, the rest imo fits like a glove.

Also, note that I´ve put "pretty much" before "spot on", not "totally", "utterly" or "absolutely".

 

[azarhal]

Well, at least we agree that "they" are right about the rest .

So, what exactly is "totally wrong" when "they" say that:
...

See my post above.

I mostly disagree with the last part of the Companions: one-notes and mouth pieces or that only Varric and Isabella have nothing to do with the Mage/Templar conflict. Anders and "siblings" are the only companions that have anything to do with that. The rest are just voicing their opinions following what is happening. As for their abilities, my Anders and Merrill are both Primal magi (I'll take petrify over heal and potions work well enough...but I rarely take them) and my Aveline isn't a "tank", although she do have high damage resistance. That just helped me tonight, saved my butt in 3 different quests actually. The game is getting harder or some quests are just meant to be hard and I'm still playing on "casual" and I use pause (but I don't take control of the others often).

As for the rest, I didn't read it entirely. I'm trying to avoid spoilers...which so far have payed off.

 

[Turjan]

Yes, a game's perception could have something to do with the age of a gamer …
Especially when I read through this thread … Today I had a talk to an employee of a shop of an electronics chain, he was responsible for the games section.

We chatted about the fact that the older one gets, the more picky one becomes, regarding games. And he agreed to that.

I notice the same in my case. I tried to find out why I am so completely uninterested in the Dragon Age games, and I guess that the answer is quite simple for me: This whole blood and splatter theme is a complete turnoff for me. This and, in the case of DA2, the ridiculous weapons, paired with this weird fighting style that involves jumping around frantically, are tropes I find totally exaggerated, and not in an entertaining way. I guess that the current fashion just went past me.

Additionally, I also find DA2 simply ugly. The outdoors are especially ugly, and the city looks totally boring. I guess this game just isn't for me.

 

[Barghest]

This sums up the whole game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgyN7ATG-3c

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Sadly, many games have more in common with Avatar than they do with something along the lines of Arcanum, and I think that is tied to the focus on tech instead of an artistic vision designed to take advantage of the tech.

I've been banging my head against this very wall for the last 5 years, and I've said as much about Avatar (re-skinned Dances With Wolves + aliens). So much time and effort is spent in pushing the technological envelope that the story and character development take a back seat.

Yes, that's interesting, too.

Because this imples - as you already pointed out - that current games *still* emphasise much more the technical aspect of a game (looking good, for example), than on the storytelling aspect.

Tell me on what a developing studio focuses on during development of a game (tech or story) and I'll tell you of what the studio consists of … Or more correct : What workforces were dedicated to that project/game.

If we see this emphasis on a certain part of a game, then we might perhaps even be able to reverse-deduce what their target group wants. Or perhaps even their target generation, so to say ?

For example, I don't think that fans of "Crysis" would want delicate story in it. Or maybe even in shooters in general ? But I must say that I don't play shooters, so I can't tell.

Similar things could lso go for other aspects of a game, not only "tech vs. story" : there re other lements, like gore, pace (of combats), are items important or not ? are there item sets ? (because this would be an emphasis on item collectng), is the gam party-based or single-character ? Is it meant to have "choice & consequence" ?

With looking at these aspects we can imho deduce - what the development studio thinks it must deliver to a dedicated fan base, because fans tend to be rather traditional within their own genres, I almost assume.

I guess that the current fashion just went past me.

I often have a similar feeling. It's almost like - as the reviewer of 4players already stated in the summary - as if the whole industry was developing past or away from a part of the players.

I can only guess that they don't consider this part - they are developing past or away from - to be big enough to develop for them.
This might be in terms of sales or in terms of building a new audience … - I don't know.

Whereas I often have the feeling as if this "new audience appeal" of Dragon ge 2 felt like rather being tacked on : They had a result and had to do the marketing after it ...

 

[aries100]

If you like at Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, this game actually seems to have a decent story. A game like Stalker also has a great story. Games like Drake's Fortune and Uncharted also have great stories. And in Call of Duty you can also upgrade your weapons and armors like you probably can in most FPS games today.

Games seem to become more and, no not alike, but similar at least. Games maybe seen to evolve (or devolve?) into transcending the genres, so that rpgs and fps games become more similar. Like I've discussed before on adventure game forums, we sometimes discuss if Heavy Rain is an interactive movie or an adventure game. I always defend it as an adventure game, because I see games more of a visual medium than say a book.

Not to derail the discussion, but I've actually been playing the new demo for the Black Mirror 3 game. And it annoys and irritates me that I can't control the character for like 5 or 10 minutes. I have to first watch the intro, that's fine. But then I have to wait 5-8 minutes to control the character in Black Mirror III. Why not just start the game right away, and then have the character try to find out what happened to him?

I fear this might one of the reasons adventure games are not that popular anymore. It takes too long to get to the part where you control the character. DA2 eases the player, any players, into the game by first telling a legendary story about Hawke, then after the player has learned how to use the tricks of the trade, switches back to the 'real story'.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hm, I think it depends on the game. Or the makers. In the games by Deck 13, for example, I have control since early on - except for the intro, of course ...

Or in "A Vampyre Story", for example ...

I think I should just switch to adventures again ... :lol:

There's a demo of Gray Matter out there s well, by the way ...
I don't remember, however, in which language it is ...

 

[Captain Buzzkill]

I had to read it twice, just to see if it was a joke article, but it's a fair and accurate assessment, in my book. Plus, the last paragraph was pretty funny.

Dragon Age 2 Review @ Something Awful

 

[HiddenX]

2.5 out of 5 at Amazon.com -> pretty low average
3.0 out of 5 at Amazon.de

4 out of 10 (user reviews at metacritic) -> epic fail

these are Arcania ratings -> dissapointed Baldurs Gate fans I think

 

[elikal]

I found DA2 one of the most horrible RPGs I can remember. I totally start to think many websites are either bribed or brownnosing, when they give this game 90% or something. I'd give 6/10 at best, accepting some aspects I found bad were more my preferrence. For me it was 1/10, personally speaking. But even if I substract that, DA2 was just a bad game with bad tech, bad characters, bad design and a totally watered down RPG. Not to speak the story was the most depressing piece of "emo-dark-dark" I have EVER seen.

No way I am gonna buy DA3.

 

[Lemonhead]

Is RPGWatch going to review DA2?

At the moment I'm debating whether I should get the game or not. At the moment I'm leaning towards not getting it or waiting for the bargain bin but it would be nice to hear from the Watch before deciding.

 

[purpleblob]

I'd rate DA2 8/10. Not the best game, but it has it's charm (which worked on me ). I will most likely buy DA3.... if they promise they will show what happened to my Hawke and Warden.

 

[HiddenX]

DA2 -> bargain bin game for me.

I'm replaying Fallout 3 - Wanderers Edition.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

If there's one thing I personally didn't like about the game, it was the ridiculously JRPG influenced weapon design. I equipped Hayder's Razor, rotated my character to look at it, and took it right back off. I'd rather fight with the trash weapon.

God yes! Someone else hated that thing. What the hell was that blade suppose to be anyhow?

Course I play on casual so if I want to run around in crappy equipment and armor I can. I control my characters some times but in some ways I like letting them do their own things. I prefer to see them as their own characters versus my robot slaves.

I gave it about a 7.5 myself, if only because I personally found the story very addictive, and the characters to be a lot of fun - although sadly not as much as I found the DAO ones to be.

It is a lot more linear*, a lot of things simplified, content is reused a great deal, and it was rushed to the market. However it is engaging and fun, the romances are great, I love the story (which helps to balance the linear nature of the game) in that you get to "live your life" as an adventure versus just having some major plot line to kill some ancient evil. It is rather cool. You are this person who just grows into power over time and you get a lot of choices to make along the way. Hawke was more of a blank slate than I expected.

Some people were turned off by this - they wanted some central plot and big evil to provide direction. I preferred the approach, for once, of just being a character who is growing up. It was very entertaining.

I would have given it a much higher score if they hadn't stripped out so many RPG aspects I liked, been a bit more open, less streamlined, done a better job on content, and hadn't rushed it so badly.

I read this article someone else in this thread posted, fro m"Worthplaying" and have to say overall I agree with it overall. DA2 is an uneven game with some high
points and lots of problems.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/dragon-age-ii.php

It clearly shows EA influence and that Bioware is on a brand new path (for good or bad depending on your view point I suppose - to me I am leaning towards bad even though I actually enjoyed much of DA2). At this point I doubt they will return to making quality games the way I like them.

*Let me clarify the linear comment. You do have a lot of freedom to decide which quests to pursue, which ones to skip, and you can do them in any order you like, overall. David Gaider siad they did put in some plot bottlenecks to control the flow - which is expected - but beyond that you do have some freedom. No my comment refers to content and layout. Its the content/layout flow that is extremely linear. You are pretty much hand guided through dungeons, paths, etc. Doors and pathways will be blocked unless it is in the right direction for the flow of the quest plot you are working on currently. Some of this is due to all the reuse of content. They use the same areas many times so do not open up certain areas unless you are on that quest. Consequently these areas feel like you are on a "straight" line to your quest objective. A "connect the dots" approach.

 

[Dez]

 

[Captain Buzzkill]

^ ^ ^
What more needs to be said?

 

[JDR13]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.. or in this case a screenshot.