Europe's 9/11

sorry to inform you of this -but i dont think what people want matters much

You think where Sharia Law is practised, it was put up to some democratic vote? Even if so, there's people's way of life theyve been taught since birth. You think people living under Sharia have a choice? Just like you or I born into our belief system. Do they even know anything different?


Thats the biggest problem with your thought process on this, it may go far beyond what people want
 
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sorry to inform you of this -but i dont think what people want matters much

You think where Sharia Law is practised, it was put up to some democratic vote? You think people living under Sharia have a choice? Do they even know anything different?


Thats the biggest problem with your thought process on this

I thought you were generalising that all muslims want sharia how, and hence labelling all of them as terrorists. Apologies if I missunderstood.

I don't know much about sharia law, but I don't think that it is practiced anywhere. What I think is being practiced are some groups' (sometimes countries including saudia arabia, iran ..etc.) interests, carrying slogans in the name of religion to oppress the weak (i.e. general people). I am saying this since I have never heard of a proper wellfare system implemented in such places (remembering that islam and muslims were the first to establish such a system as part of the religion itself and redistribution of wealth), I have not seen in such states focus on education for both men and women (again the first verse in quran came with the word 'read' as I have read), I have not seen a fair justice system, a political system based on consultation ... etc., some of the many aspects that were mentioned and promoted in islam.

Therefore, I would not call what is there as sharia (maybe the ethos of some group) and I don't think those calling for it know what it is.
 
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still - let's use you (and most others) hilariously low number of 1% of loyal devout militants. 6 million French muslims at 1% = 60,000

nothing to worry about, there?

Think 60,000 maniacs are no problem? Think they cant keep the rest of the population under control? Think they cant "persuade" anyone to see things their way?

How many people do you think it takes to make a police state? Wage a guerrilla war?
 
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still - let's use you (and most others) hilariously low number of 1% of loyal devout militants. 6 million French muslims at 1% = 60,000

nothing to worry about, there?

Think 60,000 maniacs are no problem? Think they cant keep the rest of the population under control? Think they cant "persuade" anyone to see things their way?

How many people do you think it takes to make a police state? Wage a war?

Well I said 0.01% so that's 600! ;)

From my point of view even 1 maniac is a problem, but my point was is that these few don't reflect the religion nor muslims. Germany tried to occupy europe at some time, and isreal occupied palastine, and both committed attrocities there (and so did italy, france, england, spain .. etc). - so can we generalise and call all christians and jews as terrorists!
 
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well, all we can do is sit and wait and see what happens in France

Let's give it another 10 years, we know that Islam's adherants are by and large generally tolerant of all races, creeds, sexual orientations, genders, gamertags, etc. It may fit right in with liberty/fraternity/equality hand-in-glove

stranger things have happened
 
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I just hope that someone can do an experiment and survey muslims if they want sharia law, and I woud guarantee you that more than 95% don't want that.

It is a shame that the media seems to be focusing on the 0.01% trouble makers/terrorists as if they represent all muslims!

It would seem to me, if the 95% stat had any truth to it, Muslims would not be setting up no-go zones all throughout France where they are attempting to implement their own version of Islamic law.

Moreover, you would think that Muslims that come to the west are more likely to be refugees or dissidents from their home country, and are more in-tune with western thought.

Still there is a very strong attempt to live by a separate rule of law once coming to the West. You don't see Hindus, for instance, doing the same in the UK? But its happening with Muslims because the religion strongly advocates doing precisely this, to setup their own religious courts and enclaves, to resist assimilating, to avoid taking non-Muslim friends except for opportunity's sake… (that's literally from the Koran).

Which is why Europe and American needs to understand the danger of trying to assimilate a large Muslim population at once.
 
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I just hope that someone can do an experiment and survey muslims if they want sharia law, and I woud guarantee you that more than 95% don't want that.

It is a shame that the media seems to be focusing on the 0.01% trouble makers/terrorists as if they represent all muslims!

That research has been done, on a massive scale. I'm afraid your 95% guarantee does not stand up.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

The large majority of the world's muslims support sharia law, and in many countries it is the law of the land.

The majority of Muslims (though not in all countries) oppose extremism, suicide bombing, and extreme sharia punishments. However, large minorities support these things - in Egypt, for example, support for suicide attacks is over 30%.

This is not a 'bashing' of Islam - these are simply the facts which we must deal with.
 
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I do not understand you Chien. I have no idea what your point is and how this relates to my original point. Maybe I'm dumb, but I see no point in this conversation.

The point is simple: once people engage in censorship, they have no credibility in the promotion of freedom.
The potential to call freedom of speech as a greater value to be preserved is lost.


As to kinship because of the simple muslim feature, it goes far behind kinship between censors.
People who censor, sponsor venues, organizations that practice censorship have more in common with these guys than the random muslim.
As already stated, all those books state many things and their contrary, which leaves the topic open: muslims, christians, jews might support or not censorship.

Censors, though, do not have this degree of freedom. They approve of censorship.
Censors, among themselves, agree to disagree on who must be censored.

I just hope that someone can do an experiment and survey muslims if they want sharia law, and I woud guarantee you that more than 95% don't want that.
That is asking people to decide between two systems that enables censorship.
It is not like the current system, or that non muslim people are adverse to censorship.

The current system could work exactly the same at one exception: muslims in charge.
This would mean for the topic at hand that jokes on islam would be tolerated up to the muslim tolerance. When they deem it to go too far, they would ban people from access to media, fire them from their work, blacklist etc
People from other religions would not be given such privilege though: any time jokes over their religion would go too far, they would see the socalled freedom of speech opposed to them etc
Same place, same rules, muslim landlord.

Asking muslims to determine between two systems that allow censorship makes no sense.
Actually, if the previous scenario was to happen, they could call the system sharia as sharia states one thing clearly: muslims are in charge.

That is what people on the streets are protesting against: the threat of the very same system but with muslims in charge, determining who say what.
Freedom of speech is not involved: protesters support censorship anytime it goes against their likings, anytime it hurts them.
It is a shame that the media seems to be focusing on the 0.01% trouble makers/terrorists as if they represent all muslims!
No. Islam is an incredibly large problem as it keeps revealing the system for what it is, it is not the only thing causing that, Islam causes it frequently though.
 
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Yeah, then my point about them opposing freedom as you seem to define it stands.

Saying all that, it's still a tragic event and should be condemned harshly by anyone who thinks freedom is important in their lives.

Since it's very likely the terrorists were doing this as a form of censorship for the Mohammed cartoons, what I said is very applicable.

So I do not understand your point still. Unless you were just trying to reinforce it ?
 
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What bothers me, is that while all Muslims are NOT terrorists, it appears that ALL terrorists are Muslims…
I wouldn't say so but instead something like : MOST terrorists are fanatical ideologists ! The main problem, in my opinion, IS more than often related to religion. I consider myself as an anarchist and I'm always amazed to see how people can live their lives based on one person's -or a group of person- ideology. I can't understand why so little people dare to stand against religions imposing their laws and code of conduct, even in a so called laic society like France ! Speaking (or drawing…) "against" a religion, be it Islam, Catholic or even Scientology is always a risky business and you can hear many calling you names for that. Being atheist or agnostic, it's almost impossible being vocal about it without problems ; doing the opposite, while being a zealot is mostly tolerated and even here, in France, the public television continues for decades to air a religious program every Sunday (don't even mention what it is like in Poland…) ! I'm standing on Stephen Hawking's (and The Sugarcubes…) side saying GOD DOESN'T EXIST and if by any -lack of- luck he does, then rest assured he won't ever have my support, let alone my soul, for letting Cabu, Charb and Wolinsky (among others, sadly enough) being killed by two pieces of Muslim shit ! IMHO all the religions should be totally banned from the public sector ; all the churches, mosques and such converted to social housing and all religious practice only tolerated at home, in the private circle. While I would grant everyone freedom to believe what they want, I'm convinced it should also remain, at all cost, a strictily private matter. I know that's sort of dictatorship policies but dramatic conditions can only be counter by extreme measures. America may have a problem with guns regulation but I think the entire world has a BIGGER problem with religious ideology regulation and today each and every believer, not only Muslim ones should be deeply concerned with what happened in Paris. This is not a Muslim issue but a human issue. I'm not feeling hate against Muslims or even against a God but I feel a deep hatred against the human stupidity expressed through what we call religion. And please don't even mention ignorance as a possible culprit for I'm certain many fundamentalists and fanatics are also well educated persons. An educated fanatic is worst !
 
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meanwhile, this kinda shit happens every day all over the world:

Bomb strapped to a 10-year-old girl explodes in busy market in Nigeria killing 20 and injuring 18

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904497/19-dead-18-injured-Nigeria-market-blast-police.html

The Religion of Peace strikes again, good old Boko Haram ("Western education is forbidden"), that darn little .01%…

This has nothing to do with Islam, but you obviously have no comprehension on distinguishing between peoples' actions and religion, and already set on hating islam blindly. Maybe you should you read about this religion first (this is an easy read http://www.tellmeaboutislam.com/a-brief-introduction-to-islam.html), since by logic and deduction it supports and stengthens the tenets of its predecessors (christianity and judaism) unless you don't believe in either, and in this case that is another matter.
 
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If you want to learn about Islam, read the Koran, NOT what someone else wants to tell you it's all about. Then judge the people who claim to represent the religion; you know ISIS and Boko Haram, etc, etc, who spout their hate. Sammy doesn't have a blind hate for Islam, but they seem to have a great deal of blind hate for others as displayed by their action, not just their words. Oh, and please don't say it's not Islam, IT IS....... read the Koran!!
 
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Oh, come on guys.

Do you really think terrorists would take their ID cards on a terrorist raid, conveniently leave them all in their get away vehicle, and then be found dead before any questioning?

Would they say allah akbar in fluent french and not arabic?

Would they really bother to know all their targets first and ask who is who rather than just run in blasting everyone like a real terrorist attack?

And what about this police officer who was supposed to be shot in the head? No blood at all from point blank range? From an assault rifle? You can find that video easily.

The whole thing stinks and I feel like its got something to do with the two war ships Russia has paid France to build for them but now USA/Israel won't allow France to deliver them but France very much wants to make good on their deal.

Why doesn't USA want Russia to have those warships? Give this a read. http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc.../04/reckless-congress-declares-war-on-russia/ That legislation is the most hypocritical piece of crap I've ever read and Russia is being very mature not being outraged and calling them out on it.

Of course, there could be more to it. Maybe the powers that be want to bring in some new anti-terror laws like the Patriot Act, etc. Maybe its to show how terrorism is alive and well so France has to keep supporting the war, kinda like that Sydney cafe bullshit across the road from the TV station. Sucks to be a patsy.

Edit:
Corwin said:
Oh, and please don't say it's not Islam, IT IS
Ok, so just suppose it is Islam. It's also obviously extremist Islam. You'd agree the majority of Islamic folk don't want to get involved in these kind of activities. Especially not with the world climate! Most of them probably can't be bothered going to church and the last thing they want to do is give muslims a bad name.

So, the question is. If you're one of these extreme muslims... What the fuck are you doing living in a non-islamic country? Why did you decide to move there? It would only be for positive reasons! If you're extreme to the point of murder then you'd spit at the idea of moving to a non-islamic country, surrounded by infidels, etc.

Just something to consider.
 
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Do you really think terrorists would take their ID cards on a terrorist raid, conveniently leave them all in their get away vehicle, and then be found dead before any questioning?

There's been some conflicting reports that they left the ID card at the crime scene and not in the getaway car but whatever it may be... why wouldn't they? Both had a criminal record so they knew exactly that the police would know in two seconds (from a simple fingerprint check) or in a few hours (DNA) who they are. Maybe they were really proud of themselves and left their ID so their names would be all over the press for everyone (and especially for whoever backed them over in Yemen or Syria/Iraq) to see ASAP?
It is also possible that these guys weren't the brightest bulbs and honestly forgot/lost their ID. Both had a low education and from their vitas it didn't sound like they were exactly geniuses.

Would they say allah akbar in fluent french and not arabic?

What? I don't get it. So they said "Dieu est grande" (or whatever the French translation would be)? Who is a credible source for that? And even if they did what would that prove exactly?

Would they really bother to know all their targets first and ask who is who rather than just run in blasting everyone like a real terrorist attack?

I don't get this one either. OK. They must have gathered information beforehand about when the weekly editorial meeting takes place. It definitely needs to be investigated where that leak was.
So they went in (after getting the building wrong on the first try), shot the janitor and then went into the conference room and shot one person after another in cold blood except for someone hiding under their desk, and they spared at least one woman after one of them first shot a woman and was told by the other brother to not shoot anymore women.

Anyway, why would they charge in blasting everyone like dumbasses and risk failure by injuring themselves, running out of ammo at the wrong moment etc.? There's also the issue of causing too much attention. The janitor was one bang. Too many bangs and people would have known it's a shooting and would have started hiding immediately which would have made it much harder to kill as many people in such a short amount of time.

And what about this police officer who was supposed to be shot in the head? No blood at all from point blank range? From an assault rifle? You can find that video easily.

So what happened there in your opinion?
Re the perceived lack of blood (ignoring video quality and length for a moment)... you have definitely watched too many (bad) movies. Depending on the angle, the exit wound (the entry wound usually does not bleed at all or only very slightly, unless an artery is severed, of course) could have been right underneath his body. There also might not even have been an exit wound if the bullet got stuck somewhere.

The whole thing stinks and I feel like its got something to do with the two war ships Russia has paid France to build for them but now USA/Israel won't allow France to deliver them but France very much wants to make good on their deal.

Why doesn't USA want Russia to have those warships? Give this a read. http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc.../04/reckless-congress-declares-war-on-russia/ That legislation is the most hypocritical piece of crap I've ever read and Russia is being very mature not being outraged and calling them out on it.

Of course, there could be more to it. Maybe the powers that be want to bring in some new anti-terror laws like the Patriot Act, etc. Maybe its to show how terrorism is alive and well so France has to keep supporting the war, kinda like that Sydney cafe bullshit across the road from the TV station. Sucks to be a patsy.

Ummm...

ummm....

*speechless* :)
 
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There's been some conflicting reports that they left the ID card at the crime scene and not in the getaway car but whatever it may be… why wouldn't they? Both had a criminal record so they knew exactly that the police would know in two seconds (from a simple fingerprint check) or in a few hours (DNA) who they are. Maybe they were really proud of themselves and left their ID so their names would be all over the press for everyone (and especially for whoever backed them over in Yemen or Syria/Iraq) to see ASAP?
It is also possible that these guys weren't the brightest bulbs and honestly forgot/lost their ID. Both had a low education and from their vitas it didn't sound like they were exactly geniuses.
If they wanted to be busted why would they wear balaclavas? What are the odds ALL of them forgot their IDs?

It reminds me of how after the real 9/11 they found the terrorists passports in the rubble that somehow survived the explosion THEN one of them came forward and was ALIVE and could prove he was no was in another country. The official report was left unaltered. The same report that doesnt even mention "building 7", which collapsed, like the main 2, at free-fall speed and wasn't even hit by a plane.

What? I don't get it. So they said "Dieu est grande" (or whatever the French translation would be)? Who is a credible source for that? And even if they did what would that prove exactly?
What would it prove? If you're really that hardcore islamic you speak in arabic! You talk to god in his language! These are acts you do for GOD, not for the french public.

I don't get this one either. OK. They must have gathered information beforehand about when the weekly editorial meeting takes place. It definitely needs to be investigated where that leak was.
So they went in (after getting the building wrong on the first try), shot the janitor and then went into the conference room and shot one person after another in cold blood except for someone hiding under their desk, and they spared at least one woman after one of them first shot a woman and was told by the other brother to not shoot anymore women.

Anyway, why would they charge in blasting everyone like dumbasses and risk failure by injuring themselves, running out of ammo at the wrong moment etc.? There's also the issue of causing too much attention. The janitor was one bang. Too many bangs and people would have known it's a shooting and would have started hiding immediately which would have made it much harder to kill as many people in such a short amount of time.
Because you get more points with god for taking out more infidels. Why let any live? Why waste time asking peoples names when you could just kill them all and escape sooner. Why not martyr yourself with a suicide bomb, even. It's just too orderly. If they were dumb enough to ALL leave their ID cards in the get away car I doubt they'd go to the effort of working out who lives and dies.

So what happened there in your opinion?
Re the perceived lack of blood (ignoring video quality and length for a moment)… you have definitely watched too many (bad) movies. Depending on the angle, the exit wound (the entry wound usually does not bleed at all or only very slightly, unless an artery is severed, of course) could have been right underneath his body. There also might not even have been an exit wound if the bullet got stuck somewhere.



Ummm…

ummm….

*speechless* :)

Well, this video I just found shows the raw footage I saw earlier with some comments that I agree with. (Safe for Work)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=729_1420912438

I'm sure you can find some other videos of people being shot in the head if you need to see what it really does. It makes a bloody mess.

What are you speechless about? Did you read Ron Pauls article? (he ran for president in USA)
 
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This has nothing to do with Islam, but you obviously have no comprehension on distinguishing between peoples' actions and religion, and already set on hating islam blindly. Maybe you should you read about this religion first (this is an easy read http://www.tellmeaboutislam.com/a-brief-introduction-to-islam.html), since by logic and deduction it supports and stengthens the tenets of its predecessors (christianity and judaism) unless you don't believe in either, and in this case that is another matter.

nothing to do with Islam?

you're the one that needs to do some reading my friend. Read the article without your blinders on for one minute, then answer the following-
ok class:

-What religion is the suspected group behind strapping a bomb to a 10-year-old girl and sent her into a crowded market?
A. Christian B.Jewish C.Buddhist or D.Islam

-What kind of hard-line society is Boko Haram fighting to establish?
A. Christian B.Jewish C.Buddhist or D.Islamic

-What group, mentioned in this story, has been massacring people left and right in it's attempt to create what is referred to as an "Islamic Caliphate"?
A. hare Krishnas. b.Southern baptists c.Boy Scouts D.Boko Haram

-"All I could hear were ceaseless gunshots, explosions, screams from people and chants of ‘Allahu Akbar’ (God is greatest) from the Boko Haram gunmen,”

When considering the quote above, a recent story in which hundreds of people were massacred, please explain in less than 50 words how this and the previous story have "nothing to do with Islam".
The story is referenced here, for your convenience:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-yanaye-grema-islamist-fighters-baga-nigeria
 
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Yeah, then my point about them opposing freedom as you seem to define it stands.



Since it's very likely the terrorists were doing this as a form of censorship for the Mohammed cartoons, what I said is very applicable.

So I do not understand your point still. Unless you were just trying to reinforce it ?

The point again is that censors or people who support censorship have no credibility when they claim to support freedom of speech.

The only thing they show is that they dont support freedom of speech, they only want to be the alpha censors. They want to exclude others from applying censorship. But instead the way it is, they prefer to peddle censorship as it was freedom of speech.

People do not condemn the event because they support freedom, they condemn the event because they want to remain those in charge of censorship.

Or it means that freedom of speech means being in charge of censoring.
 
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If you want to learn about Islam, read the Koran, NOT what someone else wants to tell you it's all about. Then judge the people who claim to represent the religion; you know ISIS and Boko Haram, etc, etc, who spout their hate. Sammy doesn't have a blind hate for Islam, but they seem to have a great deal of blind hate for others as displayed by their action, not just their words. Oh, and please don't say it's not Islam, IT IS……. read the Koran!!

Excellent advice, indeed do read the quran (not just bits and pieces taken out of context in similar way bits and pieces can be extracted from the bible or torah) or appropriate translation.

It is also really sad that you judge and discreminate against a religion by the actions of individuals, yet it is one the religion that complement its predecessors as mentioned in the bible and torah (see my previous link).
 
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