Gothic - hardcore or softcore? (split)

[Wulf]

@toltec7,

Solve it? - no, i enabled it not knowing what it was or implied, later and because i could not understand why it would not re-enable again, i studied G1 in depth to find the answers and indeed it became obviously clear what it was - something extra. The help given by PB led me in the right direction and i thank them most sincerely. I continued onward looking for the final piece to the puzzle forever searching until finaly after five years i gave up.

There would be no point in explaining the chromanin ins and outs to a nonchalant casual player as it would go in one ear and out of the other. (has as been proven in the past)

For reasons of principle i would never reveal the secrets to anyone but the most dedicated and devout gamer, a Gothic die-hard to the very core - a gothic hardcore gamer - and as there are no hardcore G1 players left in the gaming world of today, I remain silent and alone with the secrets forever.

However, when ever a forum thread topic is very relevent, just for referrence and "en-passant" - i will briefly mention the relevence because you never know, if someone somewhere ever did find the old man, they could contact me if need be and i would explain in full detail - yet actually there would be no need, for if any player did manage to find him, they would know immediately of the beauty that is chromanin.

 

[DArtagnan]

@toltec7,

Solve it? - no, i enabled it not knowing what it was or implied, later and because i could not understand why it would not re-enable again, i studied G1 in depth to find the answers and indeed it became obviously clear what it was - something extra. The help given by PB led me in the right direction and i thank them most sincerely. I continued onward looking for the final piece to the puzzle forever searching until finaly after five years i gave up.

There would be no point in explaining the chromanin ins and outs to a nonchalant casual player as it would go in one ear and out of the other. (has as been proven in the past)

For reasons of principle i would never reveal the secrets to anyone but the most dedicated and devout gamer, a Gothic die-hard to the very core - a gothic hardcore gamer - and as there are no hardcore G1 players left in the gaming world of today, I remain silent and alone with the secrets forever.

However, when ever a forum thread topic is very relevent, just for referrence and "en-passant" - i will briefly mention the relevence because you never know, if someone somewhere ever did find the old man, they could contact me if need be and i would explain in full detail - yet actually there would be no need, for if any player did manage to find him, they would know immediately of the beauty that is chromanin.

Have you heard about Scientology? I think you might like it

 

[DeepO]

Yeah, it´s there guys alright.
Being able to transform into demon is pretty cool, Nameless One´s revealed real identity is shocking and gives the overall story much more depth, especially in Gothic 3, dialogue with an Undead Dragon finally makes perfect sense and, of course, there are all those little throwbacks PB put into Risen as well.
The likely reason why modders haven´t found anything is the relevant files get dynamically created when the time is right and they´ll get purged once gaming session´s over.
Also, players who finish the Chromanin Quest in the trve way will obtain a special card which grants them free dinner with Elvis Presley, private excursion to the studio where moon landings were filmed and a webcam chat with a quirky Roswell foundling.
edit: drat, should´ve been a bit faster

 

[toltec7]

@toltec7,

Solve it? - no, i enabled it not knowing what it was or implied, later and because i could not understand why it would not re-enable again, i studied G1 in depth to find the answers and indeed it became obviously clear what it was - something extra. The help given by PB led me in the right direction and i thank them most sincerely. I continued onward looking for the final piece to the puzzle forever searching until finaly after five years i gave up.

There would be no point in explaining the chromanin ins and outs to a nonchalant casual player as it would go in one ear and out of the other. (has as been proven in the past)

For reasons of principle i would never reveal the secrets to anyone but the most dedicated and devout gamer, a Gothic die-hard to the very core - a gothic hardcore gamer - and as there are no hardcore G1 players left in the gaming world of today, I remain silent and alone with the secrets forever.

However, when ever a forum thread topic is very relevent, just for referrence and "en-passant" - i will briefly mention the relevence because you never know, if someone somewhere ever did find the old man, they could contact me if need be and i would explain in full detail - yet actually there would be no need, for if any player did manage to find him, they would know immediately of the beauty that is chromanin.

actually your mention of Chromanin intrigued me so i googled it a bit and found your posts under alias Bowman on Wog I think.
I only played original Gothic 2 years ago so I remember Cromanin books.

The fact is you're the only guy who ever mentioned it though the number of people who play games and post about them on forums is very discrepant.
Do I believe you? well, i believe you believe it so that stands for something, but the guys at PB might be a bunch of asses who like to play with people's minds.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Wulf]

Re:-> but the guys at PB might be a bunch of asses who like to play with people's minds.

That is slightly off track but not entirely wrong in logic - try to see it more like this to give the guys some credit -->

The original PB team (not the current one) gave out reason at G1 release that it was more than a game as we know it but suggestively "a game within a game" meaning -> the the game is covertly playing games with the player - possibly an almost perfect format of the true sense of "a game" - as you play G1 the game is repeatedly enticing and leading NH off the track he "objectively" should be searching and heading for, obviously NH is "you" so yes, it is "you" which is being teased, led astray and waylayed from the true path with the ulterior purpose of making it almost impossible for the gamer to see the way ahead. (which by its very nature is idealogically beautiful) and for this to work properly there would need to actually be more that one apparent objective, the default (fail) and the ultimate (success)

~~Gothic (G1) is effectively two games in one~~

1. The surface layer, the main game, that which we can see and interact with, the hack and slash layer for newbies and greenhorns. It is by default the failed game (but lets you think you have completed correctly)

2. The sub layer, that which cannot be seen layer, the core concept layer "redeeming the conflict between the gods" - the unrealised layer, very subliminal and appearing almost devious by intent, yet is in fact the true morality selection trigger holding layer - and if not for my stubborn insistence to inform interested players, over the years would remain completely unknown.

Both layers work side by side in tandem, communicating continuously until, at a certain point later in the game, when, if all triggers are satisfied, the activation will take place of something special - continuing thereafter in a completly different direction.

All the files relating to the true chromanin sequence are loaded when the game loads, the files are ready for the data access call when required, they are not hidden, they are ready instantly. This is the only way it will work using the G1 vdfs packed file sytem.

(there is more - much more)

 

[Gorath]

You're overthinking it, Wulf.

PB had a reputation as a chaotic grind shop. At least until Gothic 3 incl. It's unlikely there was time to play meta games.

 

[skavenhorde]

@Wulf You make it sound like the game was developed by the Dalai Lama. I'm not trying to belittle your statements, but your tone is making it seem that everyone else who played this great game was unworthy of it.

I like a good puzzle and adventure game. The keyword in that sentence being "good." If this puzzle is so hard to figure out then the puzzle deserves to be in the Hall of Shame. This game was not developed by Guan-Yin, the Gods or Deepak Chopra in hopes that one mortal would unlock its true potential. If it was then I might try to find some deeper meaning within a game, but until that day comes I'll play games for entertainment and go to my temple for spiritual fulfillment.

 

[toltec7]

@ Wulf

I can accept that the existence of extra content can be triggered.
But your analysis is way too deep for a game. Like Gorath said... companies like PB can barely meet the deadlines. Building 2 separate games in 1 is not plausible.
If you just happened to activate the extra content the first time you played without thinking too much or following certain ruleset, then it might just be a game of (very slim) chance and your whole idea is lessened by it.

The whole thing has somewhat of a case cause (apparently) some guy posted about it and then you remembered it. Sounds fine to me... But in my eyes it's more likely another quest. Anw, don't wanna beat a dead horse anymore. I'm well aware of your sentiments, just don't quite agree.

 

[HiddenX]

Gothic 1 was made with heart and soul by the original PB team. I wouldn't assume a kind of superstructure is built in, but in the game are MANY interesting things to find and the game has a very good replay value.
That's enough for me. I played it four times - and I will play it again sometime.

 

[DArtagnan]

Wulf is either playing a game with us, or he's too far gone to be reached - no matter what anyone says

 

[tolknaz]

The Chromanin quest consisting anything but what is normally reachable is simply a pipedream. Same as the fabled Destruction of Tarant video in Arcanum. By now knowledgeable people have poked around enough in the game files to have discovered them, but nothing was ever found.

 

[skavenhorde]

Same as the fabled Destruction of Tarant video in Arcanum.

I would've liked to have seen that. Much more interesting that the Chromanin thing.


Every time I type Chromanin it makes me think of Cro-Magnon. Maybe this is a quest to find our earliest roots and the old man knows the way.

Actually that doesn't sound half bad.

 

[Wulf]

@toltec7

Re:--> Building 2 separate games in 1 is not plausible <

No, not two *separate* games but two layers in the same game that give the "effect" (appear to be) as two games, one needing gameplay style 1 (fairly easy - combat style) to effect the game a certain way (the default) and another differing gameplay style 2 (harder - strict roleplay style) to effect or to bring about a further outcome. This indeed is very plausible and is actual with G1 although i admit it can be hard to grasp for some competant G1 gamers.

That second layer game is mentally "hard" and has the player deep thinking constantly as every move could be wrong one, it is seriously not for the faint hearted. The challenge is immense yet fun and enjoyable because of this - and all as intended per original PB

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

@toltec7

Re:—> Building 2 separate games in 1 is not plausible <

No, not two *separate* games but two layers in the same game that give the "effect" (appear to be) as two games, one needing gameplay style 1 (fairly easy - combat style) to effect the game a certain way (the default) and another differing gameplay style 2 (harder - strict roleplay style) to effect or to bring about a further outcome. This indeed is very plausible and is actual with G1 although i admit it can be hard to grasp for some competant G1 gamers.

That second layer game is mentally "hard" and has the player deep thinking constantly as every move could be wrong one, it is seriously not for the faint hearted. The challenge is immense yet fun and enjoyable because of this - and all as intended per original PB

From what I can gather, you and many people that you convinced or half-convinced have tried to find something there and failed to produce even a shred of evidence. The way may be the goal, but this is clearly going too far. Much less, even if there is hidden content, is there any evidence to what would trigger it. Apparently you claim to have stumbled over it by accident, and that makes it seem very doubtful that the trigger would be the most virtous or whatever game possibe. The idea in itself is cool though, and my recommendation would be to create a mod yourself that does this, the way you imagine it should, instead of daydreaming about the impossible.

 

[skavenhorde]

No one has ever found this thing and no one will.

I really do wish at least one other person could verify what he said with a screenshot or some hidden piece of code. I don't think I would actually do it because I got tired of bat shit insane puzzles a long time ago. One of the most frustrating puzzles involved using a rat to get your wallet under your couch.

 

[Wulf]

Yes, i agree we can't go on forever like this. The problem must be solved once and for all, heck its years since i enabled this thing, The best solution to all of this would be for someone independent from myself to contact PB officially and report back to the 'watch' with the findings for all to see (no mobile calls like last time) Personally i think an official PB web portal link showing a short chromanin vid' clip or screenshots etc' would give an ideal picture without giving away any direct puzzle solution (that would be sacrilege) and would show the phenomenon was true 'officaly' then take it from there. It would help the games replay factor more positively and attribute PB with some extra credibillity.

Volunteer anyone?

 

[toltec7]

Yes, i agree we can't go on forever like this. The problem must be solved once and for all, heck its years since i enabled this thing, The best solution to all of this would be for someone independent from myself to contact PB officially and report back to the 'watch' with the findings for all to see (no mobile calls like last time) Personally i think an official PB web portal link showing a short chromanin vid' clip or screenshots etc' would give an ideal picture without giving away any direct puzzle solution (that would be sacrilege) and would show the phenomenon was true 'officaly' then take it from there. It would help the games replay factor more positively and attribute PB with some extra credibillity.

Volunteer anyone?

OK, I'll contact them... (though i have nothing but their official email)
maybe they're waiting for the 10th anyversarry or have forgotten about it altogether.

 

[toltec7]

got an automatic reply in german to look for answers to my questions elsewhere. that's it from me.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Either they don't want to, or they are laughing about so many stupid people still looking for clues.

Regarding clues ... Has there ever been an official strategy guide / "clue-book" from them ?