You've defended these riots and riots in the past. You've defended violent actions and property damage on behalf of rioters now and in the past.
Yet you are surprised we are critical of you and your beliefs?
Not really because i didn't expect anything better from you , you are all eager to jump into aphorisms about things and situations you dont know shit about and try to struggle any different voice .
Your perception and my perception are different , i have sat down and listen the logic of different groups , their dreams and their principles , i may not approve their ways but i will not torch them because they are not like me.
It's kind of ironic that you profess a principled rejection of violence, yet you've demonstrated more than just "understanding" of the rioters, both now and in the past… and I don't profess a principled rejection of violence, yet I have no sympathy for them at all in these circumstances.
They are fellow working class people products of my society , either if we talk about anarchists or nazis even if they are 100% unreasonable and wrong i will not turn against them on ideological level , my way of interpreting reality and their way, my way and their way on taking action someone may be right or we all wrong ; in any way i will not play the pope claiming to know the way to Eden
There are systems that are so inhuman and oppressive that direct action outside and against the system, including violence, is the only alternative to knuckling down and effectively upholding them. In these contexts, I cannot condemn such action.
Soviet union, Russian coup, Venezuela , all ended up without bloodshed, there are always more than one solutions for a problem
However, other systems do include the mechanisms for self-reform. They may not be hugely effective, to start with anyway, which means that any reform project will be slow, and require years of patient, dedicated, slow work. Whenever such mechanisms exist, I do not approve of direct action outside the system — especially not violence.
Greece has a democratic system. You have real elections, where real ballots are cast and counted. It may be a corrupt and dysfunctional one, but it's not so broken that you have to burn it down. I condemn you because you choose to spit on that system and throw a tantrum outside because the pace of change it's capable of isn't to your liking.
You don't take hints eh ? representative democracy is not the end of the road , now if you ask me, where to go is more important than how . People feel like someone drop them to a vorvoro (ancient for cesspool) and they are sinking , they are hitting their hands and feet in odfer to keep their heads out without checking out if they are tall enough and can simply walk out of it
If, instead, you put all that energy to find people you can trust and work to elect them — starting with the micro level, school boards, municipal councils, and so on —, you would be working to reform it. You can't do it alone, for sure, but you're not alone.
Nice, we can even give school level sex education to gigolos . I never thought that we have that big cultural gap.
The other guy posted that we are all corrupted, if this is his interpretation of our hedonistic nature i wont waste finger tissue trying to explain what he can not understand .
That, Tragos, is why I don't have much respect for your politics. You've decided to fight to smash the system. Now the system is falling apart. If you get hit by a few of its bricks on the way, well, that's karma for ya.
Did you ever tried to listen ? all you doing is arguing . You are proposing dead old systems and practices based on silly assumptions that have been proven wrong , all the way wrong . We have applied democracy worldwide for like 100 years , does it work ? no it doesn't , why? because although we all love to show civilised and pretty at the bottom everyone talks about money , who have them and who doesn't …need to say more?
I would take any respect from you for "my politics" as an insult.
And a last thing , if you ever try and find reason behind what you previously thought as unreasonable then you will have every right to call me barbarian , now you don't.
Nope, never felt the need to put myself in a situation where nothing good will come and plenty of bad is just itching to break out. Kinda like in other threads where I've used the phrase, "asking for trouble". If I've got a beef with my government, I protest at the ballot box. That's how the system is supposed to work and it accomplishes the enviable goals of keeping me from getting kissed with a nightstick and nobody getting killed.
Just stay quiet at home , feel safe and be happy that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington didn't waited for the ballot box , if it works for you who am i to question it ?
You're right. Somehow I missed the part where dignified and evolved folks burn down banks. You've shown no remorse over that and instead have gone to great lengths to justify it while shifting the blame. I suppose that's not animal behavior though, since animals aren't really that devious.
Dignified ? oh come on , plutocracy robbed us took the money and go and we are now the pariahs of the planet (not the first time, we don't give shit about the planet anyway) . It is true that you are much more evolved, you have your shiny ballot box after all!
I have called you none of those things. I will say that you personally are guilty of excusing the murder of 3 innocents in your posts here, but none of those other labels have been tossed your way by me. Nor would I do so. Really, we're all guilty of that sort of thing anyway (for example, I don't apologize for Iraq and Afghanistan), but usually there's a level of remorse that goes with it. Ain't seen a hint of that from you in this situation so far.
Well , i am not excusing murder , i am trying to find reason , cause and effect .
To translate it into a situation you are common with you may never approve that Clinton bombed an aspirine factory in Sudan but you do understand the reasons and you will not go rampage pointing fingers and asking for heads to roll.
Apologies for being somewhat rude to everyone, it is not my style , the "do not understand" parts are not intended as an offence but explaining them would make this already big post look like the Illyad
