Gun Policy

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Lazy_dog
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I was reading this article (it is a bit sad):
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...l-killed-toronto-shooting-20180725-story.html

About the recent shooting in Toronto where a little girl was killed. The thing that caught me by surprise (in a positive way) is the people response towards guns. Contrast this with the Republicans in USA.

Summary:
Toronto: We should make gun laws tighter; people don't need guns in Toronto.
USA Republican: Guns don't kill people; people kill people.
 
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Being "free" to own guns is way more important than the lives of innocent people.
 
The words of freedom are large among those who do not know its extent.

Henri-Dominique Lacordaire
 
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Certain guns simply have no place in main-stream populations. You don't need a damn fifty round banana clip to hunt Bambi, for crying out loud. Matter of fact, do it with bait/traps, knives, or archery gear and make a real sport of hunting.
 
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Gun violence is sad. But it's worse when we have to wait for children to die before we decide to do something about it. Canadian laws are pretty strict when it comes to firearms, especially handguns and some assault rifles, which are classified as prohibited. Even armored vests are restricted in some provinces unless you have a firearm license. Only special cases are allowed such as police, armored car guards, some forestry personnel, etc, and even then some of them have uniform requirements (can't carry unless on the job). Even park rangers are moving away from sidearms, since bear spray is much more effective. However, hunting rifles and shotguns are still a thing, and will be for a while because of the Canadian hunting heritage. Currently people need to take a course and pass an exam to get their own/carry/use license (even for certain airguns), and there's a couple levels depending on what kind of firearm you want to use. However, it sounds like in this case, the shooter had a history of mental difficulties, and none of this is currently considered, unless you've already had a prior specific run-in with the law. We can always do better.
 
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Problem is that children (and other innocent human beings) have been dying by the truck loads because of easy access to deadly firearms - and not much has been done, even so.

Which begs the question - what ARE "we" waiting for? What's worse than the constant dying of innocent people?

It's sort of like Trump and his overtly destructive behavior. We're talking countless instances - and NOTHING has been done.

Same question.
 
You don't need a damn fifty round banana clip to hunt Bambi, for crying out loud.

Poor Bambi.

When I was in the states I visited Yosemite national park and I thought the wildlife was fantastic! They're so cute! Squirrels and deer and even bear cubs walking past with their mother. But I hated the Raccoons. They're eerily smart and were so comfortable with people they stole my food right off the table while a ran away.

Australian wildlife are quite interesting but they make horrible sounds at night and they're very low intelligence. The koalas brain, for eg, is so small that its actually smooth, not all crinkled like most brains. I'd way rather have squirrels than koalas. :)

I don't know how anyone could kill a deer. As if Americans would want to eat a deer anyway. Not enough sugar. :p
 
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I don't know how anyone could kill a deer. As if Americans would want to eat a deer anyway. Not enough sugar. :p

Up here in Canada, they're annoying, like really big rats. But they don't taste anything special except with good prep. Elk is much tastier.
 
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Fyi: While I don't own a gun or hunt I do know people who do hunt and like deer meat. Mind you there are a lot of americans who hunt for sport and have no interest in the actual meat (they just want trophies); there are others who hunt exclusive for the meat and it is a major savings for their budget - basically during hunting season they obtain enough meat to last them the year.
 
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I used to hunt back in the day, when I lived in my youth in Pennsylvania, and then later in the mountains of Georgia. Started with a high calibre long gun, then graduated to a compound bow as a teenager, and never looked back. My father taught all of us kids all about weapons and safety, and those lessons have never been forgotten.
 
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Ok, deer are quite cute or at least more graceful then cows or pigs. But honestly, eating deer is probably more healthy and also less problematic from an ethics point of view. At least they are not kept in cages before we eat them.

Huh… this thread took an odd turn. Happy to contribute.
 
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@Caddy;
Everything is a pest to the humans. Humans are a pest to the whole planet. :(

@you;
The most offensive video I ever watched was this redneck couple who scare a baby bear up a tree, shoot it then have sex on the corpse while laughing and clearly enjoying themselves then just leave it there and go home. So, yeah, don't forget to add "fucking psychos" to your list. Killing and/or torturing small animals is a sure sign there's something wrong with your brain.

@Carnifex;
I used to be an olympic standard archer, but I only shot at target boards.

Hunting was pretty cool before clothes were invented, but I feel like FARMING is what freed up enough spare time to sit down and invent things. Hunter/gatherers who didn't progress to the farming age, various Aboriginal tribes, tend to have not progressed their society at all. When the Europeans first discovered them they thought they must be a form of monkey and easily captured them as livestock for slavery.

@Cacheperl;
At least when livestock die they don't leave Bambi an orphan :(

But, yeah… Meat is sort of evil. No, I'm not vegetarian. I figure since it died I should eat it lest it die for nothing, but I always consider the animal that died and try to be thankful. Sort of like a druids prayer. Animals do eat other animals, but the balance is way off. Humans eat FAR more animals than animals eat humans. Very far from true neutral.

@closing statements,
I can watch people get blown up and decapitated and mashed up in accidents just fine. I guess Hollywood has desensitised me to violence while it glorifies war for the people. But I can't handle animal/children cruelty. I'd much rather shoot an abusive human than a deer who hasn't noticed me while peacefully eating grass with his friend Thumper.

War has been USAs whole bag since WW2. $21,267,520,842,825 in debt won't collapse the country. See what happens if USA decides to stop war. Bet you there's an economic collapse before morning. The military industrial complex has you by the balls and what's going to happen when the wars have all been won? Or is it more like the war on drugs where the intention is to never win and keep your job? Or the cancer cure industry never finding the cure because that would put them out of the job? Etc, etc.
 
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Fyi: While I don't own a gun or hunt I do know people who do hunt and like deer meat. Mind you there are a lot of americans who hunt for sport and have no interest in the actual meat (they just want trophies); there are others who hunt exclusive for the meat and it is a major savings for their budget - basically during hunting season they obtain enough meat to last them the year.

This is what we usually do. Trophy hunting disgusts me. We usually hunt mountain sheep and deer, then pay a butcher their fee to to prep the animal which feeds us through the year. Much healthier than grain and hormone fed beef.

I think those who think hunting is cruel just really aren’t properly informed. When wildlife number for species overpopulate, then all the other species suffer. So when someone says “don’t kill the cute deer” they’re essentially saying “don’t kill the cute deer so they can overcrowd the feeding zones and let all the other cute animals die of starvation”. Eco systems run amok when their not controlled. The best example of this was in Yellowstone when they finally reintroduced Wolves back into the population. I think many have seen this before, but just in case:

 
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I think those who think hunting is cruel just really aren’t properly informed. When wildlife number for species overpopulate, then all the other species suffer. So when someone says “don’t kill the cute deer” they’re essentially saying “don’t kill the cute deer so they can overcrowd the feeding zones and let all the other cute animals die of starvation”. Eco systems run amok when their not controlled. The best example of this was in Yellowstone when they finally reintroduced Wolves back into the population. I think many have seen this before, but just in case:

I don't think any argument can change that human beings are deciding who lives and who dies. Killing for "practical reasons" doesn't really disable our empathy or immediate response.

I can't enjoy murdering living beings because I tell myself it's the smart choice.

That said, "targeted hunting" that's done to protect the environment first - is, of course, a different matter - but I believe many still enjoy the act of murder even under that context.

I know there are people out there who try to argue that all hunting is in aid of the Eco system - which is just utterly and blatantly false. It's the go-to excuse for many hunters who enjoy killing animals, though.

Let's say that we were shooting children to prevent them from killing other children. We were hunting them and killing them for their meat, because we're essentially good people trying to protect the unnatural order that we've decided needs to be in place, so we can all be reasonably comfortable.

Maybe that would better demonstrate why we're not all crazy about the actual act of murdering innocent animals.

I think the act is cruel, most definitely. That doesn't mean that people acting that way are cruel overall, far from it.

We're all capable of great cruelty - for a large variety of reasons. In fact, I'd say we're incapable of never being cruel.

Then again, I hate killing mice and rats - even. I do feel cruel and selfish when doing so - and I don't need to tell myself any stories about how it's "for the best". I just accept that I put myself first and that's that. I don't think I'm more important than a mouse or a rat, and any rational argument I've heard to the contrary falls flat on its face when contrasted with what human beings are doing to the world.

You think animals killing each other for survival compares with our acts throughout history? Ok, cool.

You think it's more important to keep an unnatural order in check - so we can survive and commit more heinous acts? Ok, cool.

To me, the fact that I prioritize myself and my own race means that I'm selfish. It doesn't mean that I'm right.
 
@jdr;
I think he's just looking for an excuse to suck off 20 guys. Really average comedian. His early stuff is especially terrible. :p

@Darth Tagnan;
Well, we seem pretty aligned on this issue.

Where does natural selection fit in, anyway? It's natural for populations to increase then decrease. Normal food runs out, those who find new food survive. Humans have killed natural selection and therefore evolution is likely dead too.

It's interesting you mention the rats because I've befriended the local rats.

Go back 15 years and I was poisoning them, not happy about it but they were scratching in the roof. Works for a while but new rats always arrive after a few months.

Then I found a poisoned rat sitting in the gutter looking like he was on a shitload of drugs with a stomach ache bad enough to die from. The magpies were waiting nearby like vultures. Seemed sort of fucked up, plus I was worried about the birds. We have a lot of birds of prey around here and if they learn that rats are poison there will be a lot more rats around.

So, I leave my food scraps in the same place every night, away from the house. When I go out there I can hear them as they see me and they get excited like dogs and start to argue about who gets the food before it's even put down. They won't come up to me, but they peek their heads out a little then chicken out and hide again. The fatter they get the slower they get and the easier the owls can catch them. I'm trying to work with nature in a true neutral way.

I've watched them play in the patches of long grass and they seem to really enjoy themselves. They seem just as smart as dogs. They communicate with each other a lot, too.

But the most amazing thing I ever saw them do was a rat funeral. They dragged a dead rat to the top of this little hill (which was just a pile of dirt I'd once dug up which grass had now grown over.) and gathered around for a while, not playing, just sitting or walking around the base of the mound, one or two approached for a sniff or something then they all ran when I went to see what they were doing. That was before I started feeding them.

But since I made friends with them they haven't gone back into the house! Not in the walls or roof. They now want to live as close to where I leave the food as they can. Which is also dangerously in the open and in view of the owls.

Hows that for a cool story? :D
 
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