Hardware upgrade on the cheap

[GhanBuriGhan]

My system is kinda buckling under the strain Gothic 3 puts on it, with quite a bit of stuttering when it is loading/streaming new content - down to outright second long freezes. I tried defragmenting, optimizing the pagefile and a bit of tweaking the settings, but it doesn't help too much, which leads me to thinking that memory is probably a bit low and the harddrive a bit slow. For this and some other games I would eventually like to play, I am debating if it is worthwhile to do a cheap upgrade using second-hand components off ebay. Just to be clear - a major upgrade or new system is not in the cards for at least another two years.

Here's the system I built in 2006 with the express idea of making it really upgradable (which, of course, I never did so far):
Motherboard: ASUS A8n-SLI premium (NF4SLI, 939)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
GPU: XFX 7900GT 256MB
Mem: 2GB: 1Gx2 Corsair Twinx2048-3200
HD: 250GB WD 7200 WD2500JS SATA2
PSU: 600W
OS: WinXP Pro

I was thinking of getting another stick of the same RAM
and finally going SLI with a second GPU as above. Both are currently on the local ebay for 1€, no idea how high these components usually sell, but I would think they are probably no longer in high demand.

I was also debating going RAID with the harddrive, - but I'd only do it if I can somehow mirror my current HD on the new array - how involved would something like that be? Could I create a mirror on my external HD then get a second one of the HD above, format everything, set up the RAID and then put the image back on it? Otherwise, any recommendations to what harddrives to look for?

It was my hope to get these three things for <100€, all together.

I am less inclined to upgrade the CPU - I assume that would be a bit more expensive and probably not all that helpful. There is an Athlon X2 6000+ for 60€ right now.

Any thoughts, ideas?

 

[Gorath]

My opinion:

A CPU upgrade is a waste of money. I would suggest you overclock your current CPU though. Just a little bit when you're gaming. 100-200 MHz make a difference when you're on the edge.

Forget about SLI. A GeForce 7900 is terribly slow nowadays. Buy the fastest single card you can find for your budget. 256 MB video memory is not enough. Even 512 MB is pretty tight.

2 GB RAM is okay. I wouldn't upgrade with expensive DDR-400 modules. Plus you have to buy a pair of sticks, I think.

So it's pretty much a dead end. Buy the best graphics card you can afford, overclock the CPU.

Gothic 3 only uses single core with the later Community Patches. This means more MHz should translate to a better performance.

I've played G3 1.72 on an X² 4000 with 2 GB and a GeForce 9600GT without significant problems. Just a bit of stuttering in the busiest areas.

 

[xSamhainx]

i stretched a P4 3.4ghz 2gb ram out for like 5 years, just upgrading the card over time. That's what I'd stress, get a newer card.

 

[Prime Junta]

My last gaming system was very much like yours, and it ran Gothic 3 at 1920x1200 very smoothly. The only real differences are a much faster GPU (9800GT/512), 4G RAM, and RAID hard disks. (The CPU was a 4800+ X2, but that won't make a huge difference.)

IOW, I say buy a new video card. If that doesn't sort it, buy a second hard disk and RAID them (or buy a SSD). The hard drive upgrade means a re-install from scratch (in practice; there are ways of doing it the way you want to do it, but the odds are that something will go wrong and you'll end up spending more time to get a worse result).

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Thanks guys!

My opinion:

A CPU upgrade is a waste of money. I would suggest you overclock your current CPU though. Just a little bit when you're gaming. 100-200 MHz make a difference when you're on the edge.

I need to check, but I might allready have overclocked it slightly. If not that is certainly something I could do, the ASUS board has nice features for overclocking.

Forget about SLI. A GeForce 7900 is terribly slow nowadays. Buy the fastest single card you can find for your budget. 256 MB video memory is not enough. Even 512 MB is pretty tight.

And when I bought the thing consensus was that even 256MB was somewhat overkill. Only 4 years ago!
I kind of expected the comment on SLI. My main reason was that it seems these cards seem to go really cheap now, and I could actually use the SLI feature on my MoBo… So 2 x 256 in SLI is no improvement regarding the video RAM? Well, maybe I can get a good deal on a used HD4670/4650 or a 9800/9600GT, I suppose, but I don't see myself sticking a last gen 1GB card into that system.

2 GB RAM is okay. I wouldn't upgrade with expensive DDR-400 modules. Plus you have to buy a pair of sticks, I think.

Well these are twin modules, its one stick right now. I can get the same memory stick model, so I think it should be fine. I know XP can not take full advantage of 4 GB, but I suppose it might still be an edge if I can get it cheap.

My last gaming system was very much like yours, and it ran Gothic 3 at 1920x1200 very smoothly. The only real differences are a much faster GPU (9800GT/512), 4G RAM, and RAID hard disks. (The CPU was a 4800+ X2, but that won't make a huge difference.)

IOW, I say buy a new video card. If that doesn't sort it, buy a second hard disk and RAID them (or buy a SSD). The hard drive upgrade means a re-install from scratch (in practice; there are ways of doing it the way you want to do it, but the odds are that something will go wrong and you'll end up spending more time to get a worse result).

Gah, I don't think I can stand setting up the entire system again at the moment, So I guess the HD-RAID idea is out for the moment. I can only hope that getting more video memory would solve the problem, because right now there is clearly a lot of HD activity when I have these stutters.
So I guess the consensus is that I should rather shell out a little more for a decent GPU and forget the rest for the moment? I might still consider getting that extra RAM if I can get it cheap.

 

[Kendrik]

See if you can get a HD4850 - I upgrade my last machine with one of these from a 790GX2 (E6600 & 2gb RAM) and it was great for Fallout 3 and Gothic. Since then I have upgraded to a whole new comp but I was most impressed with the HD4850 as it added a year onto the life of my old comp.

Imho the benefit from RAID will be nowhere near as much as from a new GPU

Edit: spelling

 

[Gorath]

And when I bought the thing consensus was that even 256MB was somewhat overkill. Only 4 years ago!
I kind of expected the comment on SLI. My main reason was that it seems these cards seem to go really cheap now, and I could actually use the SLI feature on my MoBo… So 2 x 256 in SLI is no improvement regarding the video RAM? Well, maybe I can get a good deal on a used HD4670/4650 or a 9800/9600GT, I suppose, but I don't see myself sticking a last gen 1GB card into that system.

You do realize that that's still last gen, don't you?
A GeForce 9800 is a relabled 8800 with 512 or 1024 MB. So you can add that to the list too. All the mentioned cards are much faster than a 7900.

Well these are twin modules, its one stick right now. I can get the same memory stick model, so I think it should be fine. I know XP can not take full advantage of 4 GB, but I suppose it might still be an edge if I can get it cheap.

More RAM is of course never a mistake. Go ahead if you think the price is right.

Gah, I don't think I can stand setting up the entire system again at the moment, So I guess the HD-RAID idea is out for the moment. I can only hope that getting more video memory would solve the problem, because right now there is clearly a lot of HD activity when I have these stutters.
So I guess the consensus is that I should rather shell out a little more for a decent GPU and forget the rest for the moment? I might still consider getting that extra RAM if I can get it cheap.

When was the last time you cleaned your system with a couple of specialized tools? Did you disable the windows indexing service for all harddisk partitions?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

You do realize that that's still last gen, don't you?
A GeForce 9800 is a relabled 8800 with 512 or 1024 MB. So you can add that to the list too. All the mentioned cards are much faster than a 7900.

More RAM is of course never a mistake. Go ahead if you think the price is right.


When was the last time you cleaned your system with a couple of specialized tools? Did you disable the windows indexing service for all harddisk partitions?

The system is fairly well maintained, I run Registry Mechanic, Adaware etc. pretty regularly, and recently updated most drivers I could find (I used DriverRobot, but didn't like it). I also have some superfluous processes and services disabled - the usual system tweaking stuff. But I had negelected defragmentation for a while and the drive was filling up. Making some space and defragmenting the HD and pagefile helped a little bit, but not that much. Hmm. I have indexing disabled only for the main partition, holding system and G3 - does it help to disableit on the others (I keep pictures and vids on those)?

 

[Gorath]

Indexing is rubbish. A waste of resources. Every couple of seconds the CPU and the harddisk have to interrupt what they're doing to update the index.

Why rely on windows to index your pics? Sorting them is still necessary or you won't find anything. And if it's sorted you don't need another index you cannot even browse directly.
Don't forget to disable MS Office indexing.
And run XPAntispy while you're at it. It's always the first thing I run after the windows activation is done.
A run through the TuneUp2010 demo certainly can't hurt. I doubt it will find much on a maintained system, but who know.

Sorry for the brief answers. I'm kind of busy.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

No, thats great, I'll give these tips a try. No, I don't need the indexing for the pics, they don't have names that would be useful to run a search on anyway - its just on because it was on by default.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

So there is a 9800GT I thought I'd try to grab on a local auction site. However now I found this:
http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/252176-can-i-use-8800gt-my-a8n.html
Which would suggest the card would be slowed down on my system because of the old PCI-e version on this board. Is it even worth it then?

 

[Prime Junta]

It's worth it. The PCI-E bottleneck just means that your maximum framerate will be somewhat lower than it would otherwise; however, what you really care about is your average or minimum framerate, which won't be affected.

I had the same mobo, and putting in that GPU was like blowing pepper up its ass. It performed really well. Going beyond that would probably be a waste of money.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Thanks. Let's see how the auction goes, then...

 

[wolfing]

got here late, but here's my advice. Buy the best video card you can get (without going top of the line). An Nvidia GTX 260 should be fine. You are not 'wasting' it on an old computer. If next year you decide to build a new computer, you can just pull the card out and put it in the new one since it'll still be very solid.
You should also get an extra 2GB RAM since they're cheap, but unfortunately, chances are you won't be able to use these if, again, you decide to build a new computer next year (maybe you could, but it'd be very slow compared to the types of memory you could put in there).
As for the hard drive, don't worry about defragmenting, it doesn't do much (if anything at all except shortening the hard drive's life) as studies have shown. You shouldn't need an upgrade in the hard drive of any kind (unless you're running out of space of course), moving to 4GB RAM should release the stress on the hard drive, as it won't have to do as much paging/swapping.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Thanks wolfing. I put myself on a budget, so I am looking for a second hand card - and there are few cards at the level of the GTX 260 or better available second hand where I live so far, and if, they sell for well over CHF 150. But otherwise I am following this suggestion, trying to buy some extra RAM and a pretty good GFX card - 9800 GT/HD5670 or better.

 

[shaf]

The CPU cannot be upgraded 4400+ is the end of the 939 Line although It is a good Dual core processor. i'm still running it on my son's PC. I agree with the recommendation of the GX 260 Card, or try to get an GTS 8800. I found that the GX260 runs cooler than the 8800 but needs a good power supply. Your Current power supply may not have the proper power connectors, possibly upgrade to a 700 Watt power supply.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

According to the ASUS FAQ one could upgrade to 4800+, but I think its simply not worth it, unless someone gives me one for free

ASUS FAQ

 

[Prime Junta]

I think there's one above that, even. IIRC AMD produced a special gamer's edition dual-core for the 939 socket, which would work on that mobo. It was absurdly expensive then, and I don't think I've ever seen one on the used market.

(I had a 4800+ on mine, btw. Someone gave it to me for free...)

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

You are right, after a bit of Google-Foo it seems the fastest 939 CPU they made was the FX60 , and with a Bios upgrade it works on this board. That would be a roughly 15-25% upgrade - not so bad, but not good enough. Anybody have one to give away?

 

[Melcar]

If you want to go for the cheapest upgrade path, then a new GPU would be the best and most cost effective choice. Consider getting a second pair of 2x1GB RAM as well; even if it isn't a matching pair, a few tweaks in your BIOS should fix you up; keep in mind that if you use four sticks of RAM you won't be able to overclock your CPU (well, you can, but it will be unstable), but the extra RAM will offset the benefits from a light overclock.
DDR RAM isn't that cheap these days, but you should still be able get good prices on them; lowest I've seen e-tailers around here set them is around USD$60 (for a 2x1GB set). For the video card, something as low as a HD5570 will outperform what you currently got, which go for about USD$80.