If God is

[Rithrandil]

Yes and yes. But you're totally missing the point. These are BENEFICIAL mutations.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

I answered your point before you started thsi line of thought. Please lets not go into circular arguments.

 

[Rithrandil]

No, you didn't.

You said beneficial mutations could not occur in humans.

I showed you some that have occurred.

Then you just shrug and say they're not real.

Sorry, Damian, but you really need to educate yourself in the physical sciences and history before you talk about this stuff. I mean, come on dude, are you *actually* interested in learning anything about this stuff? This is just like every other thread you participate in. People explain to you exactly why you are wrong and you just move the goal post and don't ever care to admit the truth about this stuff.

 

[JemyM]

http://www.witchcraft.com.au/

These people don't have more powers than you and I, they just build an identity around it in hope people believe them. Once in awhile, in the organization I am in, we debunk those who go too far and begin to fool people.

I have seen those cured however.

Genes cannot be cured. They aren't a disease but an inherit part of the system, present in every single cell. You may ease the symptoms but the genes will not change and they will be passed over to your children if you get them.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

No, you didn't.

You said beneficial mutations could not occur in humans.

I showed you some that have occurred.

Then you just shrug and say they're not real.

Sorry, Damian, but you really need to educate yourself in the physical sciences and history before you talk about this stuff. I mean, come on dude, are you *actually* interested in learning anything about this stuff? This is just like every other thread you participate in. People explain to you exactly why you are wrong and you just move the goal post and don't ever care to admit the truth about this stuff.

As a Christian looking at this, I would have to assume that these(or variations) were present in the creation of Adam and Eve and were lost sometime after the fall and were restored somehow. My question is that if it was indeed restored, how was it restored, and did God have a part in it?

That was my response to the beneficial mutations. I didnt skip it or say they were not real. I did however move the goalpost a bit, and I apologise for that. But I didnt compromise the words fo the bible if that helps so that there is something that remains stable.

 

[Rithrandil]

That was my response to the beneficial mutations. I didnt skip it or say they were not real. I did however move the goalpost a bit, and I apologise for that. But I didnt compromise the words fo the bible if that helps so that there is something that remains stable.

And once again, that explanation shows you don't understand what we are actually talking about.

It. Was. Not. Restored.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

These people don't have more powers than you and I, they just build an identity around it in hope people believe them. Once in awhile, in the organization I am in, we debunk those who go too far and begin to fool people.

Hmm interesting point. But these are actions that can be considered witchcraft. Now if they are innefective as you say then i have to think more on this matter as i wouldnt know to call it witchcraft or not.

Genes cannot be cured. They aren't a disease but an inherit part of the system, present in every single cell. You may ease the symptoms but the genes will not change and they will be passed over to your children if you get them.

As i said cured without any medication. My pastor had the blood pressure fo a 65 year old and he turned that into a 13 year olds blood pressure in a decade without the use of medication.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

And once again, that explanation shows you don't understand what we are actually talking about.

It. Was. Not. Restored.

Can you prove that? To clarifiy i am not saying a gene was lost but rather replicated in the persion with the beneficial mutation. That is all i am asking.

 

[Rithrandil]

Can you prove that? To clarifiy i am not saying a gene was lost but rather replicated in the persion with the beneficial mutation. That is all i am asking.

Sure. Go read the papers. Damian, you don't understand what this is talking about.

This is a NEW mutation. It arose roughly 700 years ago. It is NEW.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

Sure. Go read the papers. Damian, you don't understand what this is talking about.

This is a NEW mutation. It arose roughly 700 years ago. It is NEW.

Sigh you are missing my argument. Also i did read that part 700-1850 years old. I am saying is it possible for this DNA to be these in so called "junk DNA" and simply replicated back into use?

 

[Rithrandil]

No, I understand your argument. And I answered you: No.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

http://www.psrast.org/junkdna.htm

So we havent identified 97%+ DNA in our genome but you say it is impossible? Why?

 

[Rithrandil]

Sigh.

I already explained this to you. We've IDENTIFIED this gene. We know about the mutation. Not everyone has it. It means it wasn't just "hiding" there. If it was, we would FIND THIS GENE IN EVERYONE AND IT WOULD JUST BE DEACTIVATED.

Okay, this is about all I can take. Damian, you really need to educate yourself in the sciences and history. I'm getting rather sick of this and I'm not going to address any more posts from you until you have; others have tried before me, and it just does not seem to register with you.

Everything you believe about the world is wrong. Everything. You have not one iota of evidence to back any of your claims, and yet you readily accept "God did it with magic Jesus dust" while claiming that the overwhelming evidence in favor of Evolution, the age of the universe, etc is just "wishful thinking". I've seen PJ and others go on for dozens of pages with you on multiple threads, and I don't have that patience.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

Sigh.

I already explained this to you. We've IDENTIFIED this gene. We know about the mutation. Not everyone has it. It means it wasn't just "hiding" there. If it was, we would FIND THIS GENE IN EVERYONE AND IT WOULD JUST BE DEACTIVATED.

Question is that is it being looked for? In a deactivated form?

Anyway, that is fine if you want to leave this argument. Perhaps you would develop more tolerance to people like me if you are less invested in this and thus can argue more.

 

[Rithrandil]

Question is that is it being looked for? In a deactivated form?

Anyway, that is fine if you want to leave this argument. Perhaps you would develop more tolerance to people like me if you are less invested in this and thus can argue more.

Yes, and Damian, here is a quote for you to think on:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp July 30, 1816

Damian, I have tried to explain why you are wrong multiple times. So has virtually everyone else. You have no desire to accept this and are woefully ignorant on virtually every aspect of human knowledge. Why should I smile and act like this is acceptable? It's not. It's also not my job to educate you. You need to actually do some research - it's pretty clear that you don't have any interest in learning the truth about your beliefs. You're just trying to find some justification to back them up, and I'm through giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking this time you might actually be sincere in your questions.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

Yes, and Damian, here is a quote for you to think on:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."
— Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp July 30, 1816

Doesnt work on men, as soon as we men get ridiculued we generally shift to "ignore mode". And more often than not the rest of your arguments turn to "bla bla bla bla".

Damian, I have tried to explain why you are wrong multiple times. So has virtually everyone else. You have no desire to accept this and are woefully ignorant on virtually every aspect of human knowledge. Why should I smile and act like this is acceptable? It's not. It's also not my job to educate you. You need to actually do some research - it's pretty clear that you don't have any interest in learning the truth about your beliefs. You're just trying to find some justification to back them up, and I'm through giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking this time you might actually be sincere in your questions.

The thing is i have done the research, my own off only secular sites even. But that doesnt seem to be good enough for you. It seems you just want me to agree with you and everything would be great.

 

[Rithrandil]

Doesnt work on men, as soon as we men get ridiculued we generally shift to "ignore mode". And more often than not the rest of your arguments turn to "bla bla bla bla".

Which is fine by me - you don't want to be convinced anyways.

The thing is i have done the research, my own off only secular sites even. But that doesnt seem to be good enough for you. It seems you just want me to agree with you and everything would be great.

No, you haven't, Damian.

 

[peko]

Sigh you are missing my argument. Also i did read that part 700-1850 years old. I am saying is it possible for this DNA to be these in so called "junk DNA" and simply replicated back into use?

No, in no way is that possible. Genes don't "replicate back into use", whetever that's supposed to mean.

Also out of curiosity, what parts of the bible do you base these beliefs on? I'm not expecting a full theological explanation, but some quotes and something of an explanation of how they should be interpreted and why they should be interpreted in such a way.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

No, in no way is that possible. Genes don't "replicate back into use", whetever that's supposed to mean.

Also out of curiosity, what parts of the bible do you base these beliefs on? I'm not expecting a full theological explanation, but some quotes and something of an explanation of how they should be interpreted and why they should be interpreted in such a way.

So dormant genes can never come back into use?

Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man in our image" ie we are made in the image of God. We are made to reflect the glory(or any aspect fo god) of God. And the glory of God is perfect. Hence you can say "let us make man in our perfect image".

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

No, you haven't, Damian.

I made a sincere effort to only use secular articles in this argument, by the proof that i only have ever used secular references in this argument.