Middle East news (really M.E.!)

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This is taking absurd proportions, it might be you are right PJ the FN headquarters in Gaza is burning! , according to intell it was hit by fire from Israel. On another note Israel keeps saying the rockets are launched near these locations on purporse.................. But still they have to know where the FN headquarters is!!!

Crazy!!!!! It says the fight might last until Obama enters the white house 20 of January. Bush keeps saying how much he regrets everything, if he really dislikes war now could be his chance to go out with a bit of positive press by just saying STOP! ( I guess his press is already so bad that he doesn't care and it would not make a big difference anyway, he would still be remmmembered badly)
 
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A good article from David milliband (our foreign secretary and likely challenger for labour leader if they lose the next election).

We must respond to terrorism by championing the rule of law, not subordinating it, for it is the cornerstone of the democratic society. We must uphold our commitments to human rights and civil liberties at home and abroad. That is surely the lesson of Guantánamo and it is why we welcome President-elect Obama's commitment to close it.

The call for a "war on terror" was a call to arms, an attempt to build solidarity for a fight against a single shared enemy. But the foundation for solidarity between peoples and nations should be based not on who we are against, but on the idea of who we are and the values we share. Terrorists succeed when they render countries fearful and vindictive; when they sow division and animosity; when they force countries to respond with violence and repression. The best response is to refuse to be cowed.
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UN talkie-talk-talks with outrage after Israel bombs the crap out of their headquarters. I'm sure Israel is worried about localized oxygen deficiencies.

They're burning a lot of bridges. I just don't understand what Israel is thinking by pissing off almost every source of support they've got.
 
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Yep-o. Funny how Red Cross facilities never seem to be hit by these kinds of accidents, don't you think?

As to what Israel is thinking, it's probably something along the lines of "My daddy died in Dachau, so I'm entitled, and the rest of the world can just sod off."

I seem to remember another country marching off to war while pissing off almost every source of support they had too, a few years back -- and it was wildly popular with the natives, too. Much derision towards the UN and various dairy-product-consuming capitulation simians, as I recall... what were they thinking, I wonder?
 
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Ah, but as mentioned before, it's good to be the king. It takes quite an uprising amongst the nobility to spank the king. Not impossible, but generally improbable. This is the equivalent of a drowning guy tearing up all the life preservers thrown his way while the sharks circle ever closer.
 
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Prime Junta said:
Yep-o. Funny how Red Cross facilities never seem to be hit by these kinds of accidents, don't you think?

As to what Israel is thinking, it's probably something along the lines of "My daddy died in Dachau, so I'm entitled, and the rest of the world can just sod off."

I seem to remember another country marching off to war while pissing off almost every source of support they had too, a few years back -- and it was wildly popular with the natives, too. Much derision towards the UN and various dairy-product-consuming capitulation simians, as I recall... what were they thinking, I wonder?
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What country are you talking about?
 
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He's talking about the US and the Iraq war. PJ likes to give me a whack with the hypocrisy stick from time to time to keep me honest, particularly when I start dogging on his beloved collection of CO2 emitters, the UN.

edit- Oh, cmon, PJ. What's the point of life if you can't abuse the French? That's like a global pastime. More popular than the World Cup, and the Frenchies still lose...
 
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Gotta. Gotta. Otherwise you just credit every UN success (Korean War, Gulf War 1, etc.) to the USA, whereas it gets to keep the credit for the failures. ;)
 
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Pladio said:
Oh ok, but if Obama's team is all pro-Israeli (the Middle East Team) he will probably keep supporting them, maybe even more than Bush...
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I kiiinda doubt it'll be more than Bush. The trouble is that most of the time "pro-Israel" is equated with "pro-Likud." (Which, incidentally, is yet another thing that annoys the hell out of me when talking about the subject; apparently expressing support for Aluf Benn's or Daniel Barenboim's views is anti-Israeli, or downright anti-Semitic, unless you are an Israeli yourself.)

Bush's folks were all pro-Likud. Obama's folks are more pro-Kadima or even pro-Labor, with possibly even a pro-Meretz weirdo among them. So all of 'em are pro-Israel, without a doubt, but that doesn't mean it'll be more of the same.

So I do have hopes that there will be some change of direction. The main problem with having an all-Jewish or mostly Jewish Middle East advisory group is the message it sends -- it's awfully hard to take on the role of the impartial arbiter that way. If it was half-Jewish and half Arab or Iranian-American, it would be perceived completely differently, even if the actual policies were the same.
 
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Pladio, *please* post more stuff like that. It behooves you much better than the... other kind of stuff. Perhaps there is hope, even a little...
 
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Prime Junta said:
I kiiinda doubt it'll be more than Bush. The trouble is that most of the time "pro-Israel" is equated with "pro-Likud." (Which, incidentally, is yet another thing that annoys the hell out of me when talking about the subject; apparently expressing support for Aluf Benn's or Daniel Barenboim's views is anti-Israeli, or downright anti-Semitic, unless you are an Israeli yourself.)

Bush's folks were all pro-Likud. Obama's folks are more pro-Kadima or even pro-Labor, with possibly even a pro-Meretz weirdo among them. So all of 'em are pro-Israel, without a doubt, but that doesn't mean it'll be more of the same.

So I do have hopes that there will be some change of direction. The main problem with having an all-Jewish or mostly Jewish Middle East advisory group is the message it sends -- it's awfully hard to take on the role of the impartial arbiter that way. If it was half-Jewish and half Arab or Iranian-American, it would be perceived completely differently, even if the actual policies were the same.
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Yeah, you're probably right, but I mean, it doesn't look like Obama is going to leave Israel on its own or anything like that. He's probably going to keep supporting Israel and if he chose the team on his own, he probably is very Pro-Israeli himself.
 
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Oh, I'm relatively certain that he intends to engage vigorously with the Middle East, starting on Day One. And he's repeatedly stated that Israel's security is not negotiable. That means that it's extremely unlikely that he's going to leave Israel to its own devices.

Whether he'll succeed any better than Carter, Bush Sr., or Clinton is anybody's guess, of course. The odds aren't good, and if he gets badly bruised in the process, things might change.

But I don't think you'll need to worry about the USA abandoning Israel. Just yet, anyway.
 
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Pladio said:
Oh ok, but if Obama's team is all pro-Israeli (the Middle East Team) he will probably keep supporting them, maybe even more than Bush...
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I wouldn't bank on that. First off, we've pretty well burned off our post 9-11 fury for anyone in a turban. Even Ahmed-whatever is having trouble getting us overly excited these days when he tries to poke us with a stick. Second, even though the Jews vote democrat (broadly speaking), Obama managed to piss them off several times during the campaign by having the poor manners to consider the Arab side of that ongoing fiasco. I doubt he's going to switch sides, but I wouldn't expect enthusiastic support, either.

Besides, everyone knows Obama is secretly a Muslim. :p
 
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@ Benedict: I admired that quote and now consider myself a fan of David Milliband.

As to all the other quotes and videos being posted without comment, keep 'em coming. The more controversial the better! In the context of a political forum, I think they're thought provoking and provide an opportunity for people to be confronted by their own initial points of view.
 
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Squeek said:
@ Benedict: I admired that quote and now consider myself a fan of David Milliband.
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If he keeps it up I might even prefer him to cameron in spite of being fiscally inclined to the conservatives.
 
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